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A Disgusting Event: Sandy Hook Elementary's Shooting

104 posts in this topic

BETTER YET. how about you amend the fucking Bill of Rights already. the right to bear arms can easily be blamed for stuff like this. the fact that EVERYONE can own a gun is stupid. you should have to go through an ass ton of testing to be legally aloud to carry a gun. families whom have member with mental disabilities shouldn't be allowed. etc etc et fucking cetera.

I'm disgusted by this whole thing. twenty children's lives were cut super short because of this. and the gunman killed himself, so now we can't get a direct motive for the whole thing either. we can only speculate.

Ok, this is not entirely true. Not /anyone/ can own a gun. They require a background check and up to a three day waiting period. If the person's background check comes back clean, then and only then, will they be able to purchase a gun. So, not just anyone can own a gun (at least, not legally)... But considering this individual did not legally own said guns, enforcing stricter gun laws or restricting the rights of law abiding citizens is a moot point...

I have to agree with stricter gun laws, especially after all this. As a example, in Norway we had that insanely terrible massacre, but it was a single case not seen since WW2 and hopefully never again, and we have practically no guns with citizens outside of some hunting rifles that is not easy to get a hold off without the proper papers. I read somewhere that about 90.000 or so people get shot every year in the US while in Norway we maybe have around 10-20 shootings a year, and never any massacres outside of the Breivik massacre, so I think that might be the way to go.

But also looking at mental health and schools in comparison, I think those are also very important to improve, especially on the mental health department. I heard people consider it even more difficult to talk about their problems over there than here, and if that is true then I can see why some people bottle up with insanity before going guncrazy.

All in all we need to find a way to stop this from repeating, and I'd say it wouldn't hurt to try and reduce the means to commit massacres with available. As seen many other places, everyone having gun isn't necessary to have peace remain.

The point made by others, and the point that I would like to make is... It is hard to say "Our gun laws are more effective in our country, because we have less shootings than America"... Point is, most European countries barely sit larger than some of America's states, so it is a bit unfair to compare the two... That would be like saying "Connecticut has less shootings than the rest of the US", well, given size and population, Connecticut is also significantly smaller than the rest of the US.

That was the point that Rainbro was trying to make, the figures of deaths related to guns should be a percentage based off of the size of your country. Straight numbers do no tell an accurate statement.

Case in point:

Norway

Land mass: 385,252 km2

Population: 5,033,675

Gun related deaths per year (figures from 2009): 107

That means that 0.0021% of the poplation was killed in gun related deaths in 2009

US:

Land Mass: 9,826,675 km2

Population: 314,947,000

Gun related deaths per year (figures from 2009): 9,146

That means that 0.0029% of the population was killed in gun related deaths in 2009

That is what we were talking about. Your numbers maybe lower, but so is the size of your country and the size of your population. If you do the math based off of number of deaths in relation to the total population and compare the percentages, Norway only edges out the US by a whopping 0.0008%. So, despite your countries "superior" gun controls, you're barely safer than the US based off of the percentages.

Considering the US is the 3rd most populated country (while Norway dangles down at 118th on the list), you cannot simple do a side by side comparison of numbers alone. It presents a false picture. And this isn't directed at just Norway, but really anyone from a different country that is significantly smaller than the US.

Despite all this, the US still has a lower percentage of gun related deaths than countries such as El Salvador, Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Colombia, Brazil, Panama, Mexico, the Philippines, South Africa to name a few, all of which are significantly smaller than America as well.

Now for my two cents. Sure, lets outlaw guns. That should help. After all, outlawing heroin, meth, and other drugs has certainly done a fantastic job of keeping them off the streets.

If you outlaw guns, the only people who will have guns will be outlaws. Murder is already illegal. How is making murder accessories illegal going to discourage someone?

If someone is determined to kill with a gun, they don't give a damn about breaking the law. And if they don't care about breaking the law, they will get a gun, even if it's 100% illegal. You simply can't stop the black market. This is kinda like a more dramatic analogy to the whole idea behind a DRM for video games and piracy. The laws attempt to stop the "bad guys", but all it really does is punish the innocent people.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not one a "Guns for everyone!" kinda person. And I don't follow the argument of "We need guns to protect ourselves". That is getting into a related, but separate topic though, so I'll stop there. I'm really am anti-gun, for various reasons. But I do feel ultimately that gun-control is irrelevant to this tragedy at hand. Guns will be gotten, one way or another. Or if not guns, it would be other perfectly lethal methods.

Basically, if people want to take preventative measures, we should focus on the "why" did this happen. Not the "how". In other words, we could try to examine what possibly might motivate someone to do this, not the tools he did it with. Obviously, the guy had mental issues. Not sure what they were, but I'm willing to bet that the oft too cruel society that people deal with is what makes certain people snap.

More are that later though.

Well according to this site (http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms) US got about 9k firearm murders this year, while Norway doesn't even seem to be at the top 40 even, with the lowest on it being at 0, so there is that.

Not really a solid argument, since those are absolute values. And I'm willing to bet that the USA's population is significantly higher that Norway's and other countries. You need percentage values, for one thing,

My sentiments exactly, hence, why I broke down the figures into percentages. Also, it's true that if you outlaw guns, then only outlaws would carry guns. No reason to punish and restrict law abiding citizens from the right to carry, but it for personal protection or otherwise.

That's like saying, because some individuals are prone to killing others in drunk driving incidents, we should restrict everyone's right to consume alcohol. Since drunk driving is already an illegal offense, would it matter if alcohol itself was illegal? No, it wouldn't. If people are going to break laws, they are going to break them regardless of how many safeguards are in place.

If you take firearms out of the hands of citizens as a means to try and make it harder for criminals to obtain guns, what's going to happen? The criminals are just going to look through other avenues of obtaining firearms.

First of all, rainbro my temper is of no means needed to be watched. if it was, ohh boy would it be like the old days when i would send the font size to 72, caps lock it and make my point that way. ANYWAY.

18723_10151155084131714_1943624112_n.jpg

this basically sums up my whole argument in a nutshell. it's not just 2 or 5 or 10 times worse. in some cases we're looking at 1250 times as worse in america as some countries.

Canada's gun laws work. so does Great Britain's, Japan's etc etc etc. there is no need for america not to follow suit with this. you might make the argument that sure criminals are going to get guns illegally. i get that because up here in canada most of those 52 people who died to guns were either known to police or died because of gang related shootings. but again, look a the statistics.

on the topic of people saying "if ban/regulate guns, ban/regulate knifes then" or something along those lines. let me ask you something. Do you really think someone can walk into a school with a knife and be able to commit the same level of massacre as if they had a gun? i doubt it. unlike a gun, you need to be in close to get a mortal wound on someone, and not only that, but there could be someone there who's trained in the ways of disarming people with knifes, so you go in to stab them and boom, suddenly the knife isn't in your hands anymore.

there are a lot of things that can be used to kill someone. many of which can be bought as simple household appliances and tools. but most of them lack the same killing potential and ease as a gun does. and when you have something like that available for so many people without any real restrictions for the purchase, what do you think is going to happen?

As Malt pointed out, old statistics are old, also don't take into account the population and size differences between countries. It's just meant to be liberal shock propaganda, since most people are too dumb to sit and work the figures out on their own and realize "Oh, hey, yeah, we may have more numbers of deaths, but that's because most of these countries are smaller than the state of Texas, so lower population sizes".

Also, that bold statement right there. Entirely false. In Iraq, what do you think is responsible for most number of deaths versus the soldiers? Guns or homemade explosives made from readily available products purchased off the shelf (or salvaged from other sources) that have instructions readily available all over the internet? Answer: IEDs. While most of you are simply too young to know the reference, the Oklahoma City bombing in the mid 90s serves as a prime example. In one attack, using readily available materials, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols built and detonated a homemade explosive that killed 168 people (19 were children under the age of 6), injured over 680 additional people, and caused at least $652 million in damages. Tell me again how guns make it easier to kill people again? I have yet to see a single attack using guns that did anything comparable to this one homemade explosive.

For those of you too young to know what the Oklahoma City bombing was, read up: [Link]

Also I don't see how the link isn't a valid argument. It shows that the US got a lot of people getting killed with guns while Norway doesn't have any, I don't understand what more you want as proof that Norway got no people being shot dead with guns most years while the US do =/

My argument is, maybe more people in the US are shot, because there are more people in the US. If usually 1000 people live in the US, and 150 are shot every year--That's 15%. If usually 100 people live in Norway, and 30 are shot, that's 30%. 150 is a lot more than 30, but 30% is twice that of 15%.

You need to find numbers that illustrate you point percentage-wise. I have no such numbers, and I make no claim to actually know the dynamic. My only point is that the information you submitted for your argument is incomplete. You could be right--but you haven't posted anything that empirically proves it.

And not everyone has is about the gun-culture. I'm still anti-gun. I just gun-control is largely irrelevant to this situation.

But... it shows that 0% of all murders in Norway are gun related simply by saying there is none, while showing 9k dead people in the US due to guns. How is that not proving the point? We don't have gun related murderers here for the most part, and we have had exactly 1 massacre in the past 60-70 years or so. =/

Also we very very rarely have "random killings" here, whenever something like a murder attempt is on TV it is because of gang violence or family feuds, so there is that too. Someone was stabbed in my town some months back, yet I am still not afraid to be outside because it was without a doubt due to a family feud that I am unrelated to (he survived anyways).

It also depends on when your figures were gathered. Some years have incomplete figures. The most recent year I saw that included a number of gun related deaths in Norway was 2009. If you pulled your figures from a newer source (or a year that had incomplete figures), then 0% is a misrepresentation...

So...

TL;DR? Figures comparing the US to other countries with alternative gun control laws is moot unless you do it off of percentages, since none of these other countries sit on the amount of land or sustains the poplation that the US does. A straight comparison of figures is unfair. Also, there are far more destructive (and readily available) means of committing mass homicide than guns, so fear mongering calling for more restrictive gun laws is just silly. If a person intends on killing others, no amount of laws are going to prevent them from doing that and if their intent is to kill or injure many people, then keeping them from guns will not solve the problem either.

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STATS

Thank you ,Pinka, for saving me the effort of hunting down current gun death info, so Fluffy can quit beating us over the head with a 20-year-old poster.

That said, could you citate where you got that info from? Might prevent further fussing.

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STATS

Thank you ,Pinka, for saving me the effort of hunting down current gun death info, so Fluffy can quit beating us over the head with a 20-year-old poster.

That said, could you citate where you got that info from? Might prevent further fussing.

Not that anyone ever clicks on the links... Lol...

http://www.gunpolicy.org/

That's where I got the figures from.... Percentages I did the math on myself, so if anyone wishes to check it, be my guest...

Population and land sizes came from wikipedia...

Also, point of reference: America is only #21 out of the top 25 countries for gun related homicides, meaning 20 other countries have a much higher percentage...

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STATS

Thank you ,Pinka, for saving me the effort of hunting down current gun death info, so Fluffy can quit beating us over the head with a 20-year-old poster.

That said, could you citate where you got that info from? Might prevent further fussing.

So, because you are thanking Pinkamena for pointing out that I pointed out that the poster is old. So you are indirectly thanking me, SCORE ONE FOR TEAM MALT!

Edited by Suitaloo

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@ ybnrmalatall

Another out burst like that, and I'll have to take action.

We have a significant portion of this forum dedicated to pony. And the rest is pretty open to whatever people want to talk about. If you don't like it, then don't post here--not one is forcing you, and I'm sure you're perfectly capable of ignoring it.

Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

Rule of thumb. If you are feeling angry, don't post. It's that simple.

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But... 0 is 0, no matter if it is percent or not! I feel you guys are completely sidestepping and looking through loopholes on my argument to disvalue it at this point... We got 4 million people over here and no guns, and no people getting killed by guns. That got to count for something, especially considering how about 30% of the population are pretty hardcore racist too.

EDIT: Okay that seems very odd that those numbers are from 2009 that you posted as I can't remember anything about any shootings ever that year and the Breivik massacre was in 2010 or 2011 (those days where a blur so can't remember exactly). Are you sure those are correct? When someone get shot over here it is considered a pretty big fucking deal and usually get a lot of media attention so I find it hard to believe there was 100 gun related deaths in any year other than the Breivik massacre year here.

Edited by Nikki Lyra

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Also, that bold statement right there. Entirely false. In Iraq, what do you think is responsible for most number of deaths versus the soldiers? Guns or homemade explosives made from readily available products purchased off the shelf (or salvaged from other sources) that have instructions readily available all over the internet? Answer: IEDs. While most of you are simply too young to know the reference, the Oklahoma City bombing in the mid 90s serves as a prime example. In one attack, using readily available materials, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols built and detonated a homemade explosive that killed 168 people (19 were children under the age of 6), injured over 680 additional people, and caused at least $652 million in damages. Tell me again how guns make it easier to kill people again? I have yet to see a single attack using guns that did anything comparable to this one homemade explosive

While i won't bother trying to argue anything else since it all statistically works out after calculations i probably should've done beforehand, i have to reply to this segment. true homemade explosives tend to kill more soldiers in iraq since they're not blatantly obvious. however i fail to see how iraq = america. Yes, a bombing does far more damage than a gun. but it's not like the two men went out, bought the bomb and blew it up somewhere. i'm not claiming to say that the materials to create a bomb are cheaper than a gun, but one would presume if its homemade, it's gonna take a while to create. thus the ease part of what i was saying. yes a bomb has more killing potential than a gun, but it doesn't contain the same ease really from the way i look at it. and how often are there bombings in america? i honestly haven't heard anything about a bombing in america in a long time. but maybe i've forgotten about one.

STATS

Thank you ,Pinka, for saving me the effort of hunting down current gun death info, so Fluffy can quit beating us over the head with a 20-year-old poster.

thanks kenyon, good to know you're still the lovable asshole around here taking one maybe two times showing said picture as a repetitive HEY GUYS LOOK AT THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. boy do i sure look the fool.

Edited by Lord Fluffy

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STATS

Thank you ,Pinka, for saving me the effort of hunting down current gun death info, so Fluffy can quit beating us over the head with a 20-year-old poster.

thanks kenyon, good to know you're still the lovable asshole around here taking one maybe two times showing said picture as a repetitive HEY GUYS LOOK AT THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. boy do i sure look the fool.

I don't think that's the point of what he said.

I'm thinking that the fact that you used an old poster the way it seemed like you did wouldn't prove anything, really.

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I'm not stressing the repetition, Fluffy, I'm stressing the fact that your pitch in this argument is a propaganda poster, influencing Americans to pass gun control laws that are CURRENTLY IN EFFECT, that is also older than you.

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But... 0 is 0, no matter if it is percent or not! I feel you guys are completely sidestepping and looking through loopholes on my argument to disvalue it at this point... We got 4 million people over here and no guns, and no people getting killed by guns. That got to count for something, especially considering how about 30% of the population are pretty hardcore racist too.

EDIT: Okay that seems very odd that those numbers are from 2009 that you posted as I can't remember anything about any shootings ever that year and the Breivik massacre was in 2010 or 2011 (those days where a blur so can't remember exactly). Are you sure those are correct? When someone get shot over here it is considered a pretty big fucking deal and usually get a lot of media attention so I find it hard to believe there was 100 gun related deaths in any year other than the Breivik massacre year here.

0%, not 0 deaths.... There is a difference, since the official percentage was 0.0021%, it was most likely just rounded to 0%. Also, as I explained, some years statistics are incomplete, for one reason or another, so there's no guarantee that the year's figures you looked at were complete... As I pointed out, in 2009 there were 107 gun related deaths in 2009, which appeared to be the most recent year I could get updated figures on gun related deaths for Norway (which is why I also took from 2009 figures for the US as well)...

While i won't bother trying to argue anything else since it all statistically works out after calculations i probably should've done beforehand, i have to reply to this segment. true homemade explosives tend to kill more soldiers in iraq since they're not blatantly obvious. however i fail to see how iraq = america. Yes, a bombing does far more damage than a gun. but it's not like the two men went out, bought the bomb and blew it up somewhere. i'm not claiming to say that the materials to create a bomb are cheaper than a gun, but one would presume if its homemade, it's gonna take a while to create. thus the ease part of what i was saying. yes a bomb has more killing potential than a gun, but it doesn't contain the same ease really from the way i look at it. and how often are there bombings in america? i honestly haven't heard anything about a bombing in america in a long time. but maybe i've forgotten about one.

No, homemade explosives kill more soldiers in Iraq because they are cheaply manufactured, therefore used in greater frequency than guns... Whether or not they are easily hidden is hardly the point...

Also, no, it does not take nearly as much time to build these bombs as you would think... Back in 1995 there were little resources available since the internet was still burgeoning, today as simple web search (and I do not suggest you do this) would easily net you plenty of resources that show you how to build a homemade explosive... Hell, on youtube the other day I was watching Palestinians building rockets out of unexploded Israeli cluster bombs... The video showed the entire process from them digging the unexploded cluster bombs out of the ground to the manufacturing and refitting of the explosive to a rocket body...

Now, let's break down (which, some may find a bit morbid, but I'm just being realistic here) the cost effectiveness of attacks from weapons made from off the shelf components versus mass shootings...

The Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people (not including the wounded and the subsequent property damage), while costing less than $5000 for all materials (including the truck rental) to construct the bomb... At face value, that is only $29 per casualty, which is about as wholesale (and destructive) as death can be...

The shooting at Fort Hood, Texas for instance, killed 13 soldiers... MAJ Nidal Hasan was carrying a FN 5.7 tactical pistol (which retails at around $1000) and a Smith & Wesson .357 magnum revolver (costing between $809 to $1000 depending on the model he went with)... Reports also claims that he purchased "hundreds of rounds" of ammunition, specifically 5.7×28mm SS192 (hollow tipped ammunition that costs $9.95 per round) and SS197 SR (standard round that costs $2.50 per round)... Without exact figures, I will estimate the cost at being $1245 (estimation based off of just 100 rounds of each type, could have been more)... Also, the extra magazines he purchased ran $33.99 (and I'll just throw in 3, although this too seems like it is probably a low ball figure for a total of $101.97)... In total, for this one shooting spree, the individual paid (at the very minimum) $3146 which averages to $242 per casualty...

The shooting at Aurora, Colorado, suffered 12 casualties... The reports indicate that the shooter was armed with a Smith & Wesson M&P15 rifle (costing around $500), a Remington 870 Express Tactical shotgun (running between $400 and $800 depending on model), and 2 Glock 22 pistols (averaging $500 to $600 a piece)... In guns alone, this individual paid (once again, at minimum) close to $2000, which if you include the accessories (such as the 100 round drum magazine for the rifle), the ammunition for 4 guns, the body armor he wore, the gas canisters he used, etc etc etc, (too tired of this post since it's the second time typing it to look up all the prices again) the cost per casualty is well over $250...

Point being, it's not cheap and not easy to obtain everything used for these mass shootings (quickly that is)... The fact that these individuals are willing to invest the time and money into acquiring these items for the purpose of causing mass harm only illustrates that even in the event that guns were made illegal, individuals that seek to perpetrate these sorts of atrocities will find other ways... Hell, let's just look at the tactics of the IRA... Where guns were harder to come by, instead they used explosives and car bombs to wreck havoc...

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@ ybnrmalatall

Another out burst like that, and I'll have to take action.

We have a significant portion of this forum dedicated to pony. And the rest is pretty open to whatever people want to talk about. If you don't like it, then don't post here--not one is forcing you, and I'm sure you're perfectly capable of ignoring it.

Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

Rule of thumb. If you are feeling angry, don't post. It's that simple.

That wasn't an outbreak I was stating my opinion

stating my opinion =/= Outbreak

>Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

I sound like a child? When I am literally the only one who knows this is pointless? That nothing but stupid "HAHA AMURCANS" debates and then the americans defending themselfs

That is all it is, as a mod you shouldn't allow that

but no when I state an opinion that people doing this is stupid you attack me

>logic

Edited by ybnrmalatall

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@ ybnrmalatall

Another out burst like that, and I'll have to take action.

We have a significant portion of this forum dedicated to pony. And the rest is pretty open to whatever people want to talk about. If you don't like it, then don't post here--not one is forcing you, and I'm sure you're perfectly capable of ignoring it.

Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

Rule of thumb. If you are feeling angry, don't post. It's that simple.

That wasn't an outbreak I was stating my opinion

stating my opinion =/= Outbreak

>Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

I sound like a child? When I am literally the only one who knows this is pointless? That nothing but stupid "HAHA AMURCANS" debates and then the americans defending themselfs

That is all it is, as a mod you shouldn't allow that

but no when I state an opinion that people doing this is stupid you attack me

>logic

If you think that this argument is pointless why are you posting?

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Point being, it's not cheap and not easy to obtain everything used for these mass shootings (quickly that is)... The fact that these individuals are willing to invest the time and money into acquiring these items for the purpose of causing mass harm only illustrates that even in the event that guns were made illegal, individuals that seek to perpetrate these sorts of atrocities will find other ways... Hell, let's just look at the tactics of the IRA... Where guns were harder to come by, instead they used explosives and car bombs to wreck havoc...

Uhh actually, all this guy did was grab his mother's guns and then run out and kill everyone. He didn't have to pay a dime, he just killed his mother who had a stockpile of guns and ammo and he was set for life. Your argument doesn't apply for all situations.

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@ ybnrmalatall

Another out burst like that, and I'll have to take action.

We have a significant portion of this forum dedicated to pony. And the rest is pretty open to whatever people want to talk about. If you don't like it, then don't post here--not one is forcing you, and I'm sure you're perfectly capable of ignoring it.

Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

Rule of thumb. If you are feeling angry, don't post. It's that simple.

That wasn't an outbreak I was stating my opinion

stating my opinion =/= Outbreak

>Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

I sound like a child? When I am literally the only one who knows this is pointless? That nothing but stupid "HAHA AMURCANS" debates and then the americans defending themselfs

That is all it is, as a mod you shouldn't allow that

but no when I state an opinion that people doing this is stupid you attack me

>logic

Dude, I'd say at least 3/5ths of this discussion is being held by Americans, many of which are on opposing sides of this debate. This isn't fucking 4chan, where it's AMERIFATS VS YUROPOORS.

And since being nice didn't work, let me try this again.

If you don't like the discussion, get the fuck out of the thread. We're not strapping you to the fucking monitor, dumbass.

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@ ybnrmalatall

You will notice that everyone is stating an opinion, and I'm not getting on their case for that. And neither am I getting on your case for starting your own opinion.

However,

-Typing whole phrases with caps is considered rude and immature by most netiquette standards.

-As is blatantly calling others and/or their ideas stupid and in general insulting other posters.

-As is resorting to profanity, needlessly.

I try to be tolerant if one of these is transgressed by a member every now and then, but you manage to do most or all of them in every post in this thread so far. And that is what I'm calling you out for. You're free to express an opinion, but refrain from all of my listed points. If you can't respect others (even if their opinion differs from yours) then you're not welcome here.

We welcome debate threads here, so long as people remain mature. If you don't feel it's worth debating, then don't post here. Your opinion does not extend to the whole of this forum.

If you don't like the discussion, get the fuck out of the thread. We're not strapping you to the fucking monitor, dumbass.

The applies to you too Mr K. Refrain from the insults. I'll handle this.

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Point being, it's not cheap and not easy to obtain everything used for these mass shootings (quickly that is)... The fact that these individuals are willing to invest the time and money into acquiring these items for the purpose of causing mass harm only illustrates that even in the event that guns were made illegal, individuals that seek to perpetrate these sorts of atrocities will find other ways... Hell, let's just look at the tactics of the IRA... Where guns were harder to come by, instead they used explosives and car bombs to wreck havoc...

Uhh actually, all this guy did was grab his mother's guns and then run out and kill everyone. He didn't have to pay a dime, he just killed his mother who had a stockpile of guns and ammo and he was set for life. Your argument doesn't apply for all situations.

And, in this specific incident gun control laws wouldn't of done anything to circumvent the shooting, hence, all the discussion about stricter gun control laws are pointless in reference to this case...

But for the other shootings, the individual had to purchase their own weapons...

I brought up everything else, since everyone kept calling for stricter gun laws...

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@ ybnrmalatall

Another out burst like that, and I'll have to take action.

We have a significant portion of this forum dedicated to pony. And the rest is pretty open to whatever people want to talk about. If you don't like it, then don't post here--not one is forcing you, and I'm sure you're perfectly capable of ignoring it.

Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

Rule of thumb. If you are feeling angry, don't post. It's that simple.

That wasn't an outbreak I was stating my opinion

stating my opinion =/= Outbreak

>Also, drop the attitude. You sound like a child; and you are unable to post without resorting to petty insults, then you won't be welcome here. This is your first and only freebie warning.

I sound like a child? When I am literally the only one who knows this is pointless? That nothing but stupid "HAHA AMURCANS" debates and then the americans defending themselfs

That is all it is, as a mod you shouldn't allow that

but no when I state an opinion that people doing this is stupid you attack me

>logic

Dude, I'd say at least 3/5ths of this discussion is being held by Americans, many of which are on opposing sides of this debate. This isn't fucking 4chan, where it's AMERIFATS VS YUROPOORS.

And since being nice didn't work, let me try this again.

If you don't like the discussion, get the fuck out of the thread. We're not strapping you to the fucking monitor, dumbass.

haha

I am just stating my opinions

why don't you leave if you don't like it?

This is what these kinds of thread bring

get over it

@ ybnrmalatall

You will notice that everyone is stating an opinion, and I'm not getting on their case for that. And neither am I getting on your case for starting your own opinion.

However,

-Typing whole phrases with caps is considered rude and immature by most netiquette standards.

-As is blatantly calling others and/or their ideas stupid and in general insulting other posters.

-As is resorting to profanity, needlessly.

I try to be tolerant if one of these is transgressed by a member every now and then, but you manage to do most or all of them in every post in this thread so far. And that is what I'm calling you out for. You're free to express an opinion, but refrain from all of my listed points. If you can't respect others (even if their opinion differs from yours) then you're not welcome here.

We welcome debate threads here, so long as people remain mature. If you don't feel it's worth debating, then don't post here. Your opinion does not extend to the whole of this forum.

If you don't like the discussion, get the fuck out of the thread. We're not strapping you to the fucking monitor, dumbass.

The applies to you too Mr K. Refrain from the insults. I'll handle this.

There ya go!

*claps*

Now you are talking to me like a decent person!

Okay I will stop

That is all you had to do

:)

Edited by ybnrmalatall

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haha

I am just stating my opinions

why don't you leave if you don't like it?

This is what these kinds of thread bring

get over it

Dude, go back to 4chan.

Your opinion is that this thread should not be discussed. As Rainbro's already stated, we don't need that shit here.

Furthermore, this thread was running fine 'til you came in and started shit.

Now you think you're being cute and 'le 4chan trollin XD', and just making yourself out to be an idiot. Seriously, cut your losses and just stop talking.

Edited by MrKenyon
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Point being, it's not cheap and not easy to obtain everything used for these mass shootings (quickly that is)... The fact that these individuals are willing to invest the time and money into acquiring these items for the purpose of causing mass harm only illustrates that even in the event that guns were made illegal, individuals that seek to perpetrate these sorts of atrocities will find other ways... Hell, let's just look at the tactics of the IRA... Where guns were harder to come by, instead they used explosives and car bombs to wreck havoc...

Uhh actually, all this guy did was grab his mother's guns and then run out and kill everyone. He didn't have to pay a dime, he just killed his mother who had a stockpile of guns and ammo and he was set for life. Your argument doesn't apply for all situations.

And, in this specific incident gun control laws wouldn't of done anything to circumvent the shooting, hence, all the discussion about stricter gun control laws are pointless in reference to this case...

But for the other shootings, the individual had to purchase their own weapons...

I brought up everything else, since everyone kept calling for stricter gun laws...

But if they had stricter gun laws the mother might not have had guns to begin with at all. I mean damn, a kindergarten teacher with a bloody assault rifle, that shit wouldn't fly anywhere else in the world (and yes I know the killer used pistols, but they found a assault riffle in his car according to the news).

And stricter gun laws would make it more difficult for them to get a hand on weaponry all in all, hell that it was it means, to make it more difficult to get a hand on a gun or rifle. Breivik used several years to get a hold of his rifle over here from what I understand.

Edited by Nikki Lyra

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haha

I am just stating my opinions

why don't you leave if you don't like it?

This is what these kinds of thread bring

get over it

Dude, go back to 4chan.

lol You are serious? xD

So mad

So little care over here

Yer steppin' into boundaries there, kiddo.

Seriously yer bein kind of a douche.

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Now, I don't live in the United States, so I'm not as informed as other people here, but please do refrain from telling me to f+ck off.

Now, the simple reason threads as this exist is that people like to discuss recent events. If we didn't, we would just sit around in silence.

But, unlike yourself, my dear ybnrmatall, I do believe opinion does matter. No matter how much power the goverment holds, it is always the people who are in control, because without a populance there would be nothing to govern.

Besides, opinion is how laws are changed, revolutions are started.

Now, you may return to your previous point that "then why are we helping people in the middle east". The answer is very simple: Although they would eventually win (as it happened in Lybia and Egypt and so on) but we must try to prevent bloodshed as much as it is in our power, because bloodshed will happen.

You may not share my opinion, but that's why this thread exists, so we may discuss the why's in civilty.

Now, as for the topic of conversation, I find it both saddening and horrifying that such things can happen. Though my knowledge and understanding of american gun laws is limited, I do understand that the Bill of Rights was signed during a time of uneasyness. Perhaps the best possible way would be to simply restrict who can bear arms as it is here, such as people with a license. It won't wipe out the problem, but it will limit it at least. After all, if we outlaw guns, americans, brits, spanish and anyone else alike, only the outlaws would have guns. So maybe only the enforcers of the law should be allowed to posess one.

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haha

I am just stating my opinions

why don't you leave if you don't like it?

This is what these kinds of thread bring

get over it

Dude, go back to 4chan.

lol You are serious? xD

So mad

So little care over here

Yer steppin' into boundaries there, kiddo.

Seriously yer bein kind of a douche.

I am just replying as a douche to a douche

no harm here

why bring yourself into it dude

I was done lol

lol You are serious? xD

So mad

So little care over here

and how do you not know what tabs are? haha

http://puu.sh/1BGMk

Wi2Ha.png

Edited by Xenmas
1 person likes this

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Point being, it's not cheap and not easy to obtain everything used for these mass shootings (quickly that is)... The fact that these individuals are willing to invest the time and money into acquiring these items for the purpose of causing mass harm only illustrates that even in the event that guns were made illegal, individuals that seek to perpetrate these sorts of atrocities will find other ways... Hell, let's just look at the tactics of the IRA... Where guns were harder to come by, instead they used explosives and car bombs to wreck havoc...

Uhh actually, all this guy did was grab his mother's guns and then run out and kill everyone. He didn't have to pay a dime, he just killed his mother who had a stockpile of guns and ammo and he was set for life. Your argument doesn't apply for all situations.

And, in this specific incident gun control laws wouldn't of done anything to circumvent the shooting, hence, all the discussion about stricter gun control laws are pointless in reference to this case...

But for the other shootings, the individual had to purchase their own weapons...

I brought up everything else, since everyone kept calling for stricter gun laws...

But if they had stricter gun laws the mother might not have had guns to begin with at all. I mean damn, a kindergarten teacher with a bloody assault rifle, that shit wouldn't fly anywhere else in the world (and yes I know the killer used pistols, but they found a assault riffle in his car according to the news).

And stricter gun laws would make it more difficult for them to get a hand on weaponry all in all, hell that it was it means, to make it more difficult to get a hand on a gun or rifle. Breivik used several years to get a hold of his rifle over here from what I read after all.

Assault rifle is a liberal term...

What was found was a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle (the civilian model of the M4 carbine, primarily used for sports hunting, lacks full auto or three round burst, therefore not an assault rifle). Also on the shooter was a 9mm Glock pistol and a 9mm Sig Sauer pistol. He also had access in the home, but didn't take .45 Henry repeating rifle, a .30 Enfield rifle, and a .22 Marlin rifle. All three of these rifles, along with the .223-caliber Bushmaster indicate that either the mother (the father, someone in the family) was a hunter. The two pistols were most likely for either home or personal defense, since I know many hunters carry small sidearms in addition to hunting rifles.

Last I checked, even in countries with strict gun laws, rifles are allowed, especially for the use of hunting. Most gun laws only ban larger caliber or concealable weapons, which, in this case would of been the 9mm pistols. Both of which, however, were relatively weak (hence why reports say that a rifle was used).

Also, ybnrmalatall, if you insist on fighting with individuals take it to PM. You are derailing this thread with posts that are irrelevant to the topic at hand and serves as nothing more than a way for you to try and prove some misguided personal point. If this continues, you will be assigned additional warning points, which will push you that much closer to a ban.

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