Rainbro Dash

TF2 Class Discussion

514 posts in this topic

Discussion TF2 class balance! Class vs. class? Battle-engi vs. Vanilla? Are Demo-knights awesome?

Discuss!

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(Starting this thread to prevent another from being derailed)

The only class Demo can't handle is Scout.

If the Demo is good at using the sticky bomb launcher, then Scouts aren't too much of a problem.

True, but that really applies to any class.

The only class that I think a scout can't beat is an Engi with a lvl 2/3 sentry

But scout's are also weak in closed in areas.

That is true, but pretty much any class, excluding Spy and Sniper, can beat a scout. Even a Medic.

Also Scouts have a tough time fighting both lvl 1 and combat sentries. If you're a scout, then stay away from sentries.

Yes, even mini-sentries are a great deal of grief to a Scout. Spy and Engy may have an eternal rivalry, but Engi is just bully to the Scout. :spin:

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A good demo will lose to a scout 90% of the time. The response of "STICKY LAUNCHER!!!" Doesn't work, because the only area the sticky launcher is ineffective in--close range--is the Scout's primary domain. Plus, he has the mobility to dodge explosives.

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I hate snipers, completely.

Once I was a fully healed heavy and I got into a close range battle with a sniper with a Razorback. I got first attack since I was using Tomislav, when he suddenly scoped in and killed me. That shouldn't be possible, each new weapon they give Sniper makes him a little more overpowered. Hell, I can't even kill a Sniper in a close range battle as a PYRO anymore.

Edited by Rainbow-Jack79

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A good demo will lose to a scout 90% of the time. The response of "STICKY LAUNCHER!!!" Doesn't work, because the only area the sticky launcher is ineffective in--close range--is the Scout's primary domain. Plus, he has the mobility to dodge explosives.

I pretty much agree with this. I have no fear of Demos when playing Scout.

Unless the Demo is a real crack-shot with the grenade launcher and near-psychic in predicting movements, the Scout will likely win, but then again, that applies anyone fighting a Scout.

Edited by Rainbro Dash

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I can usually kill a Scout in two hits with a grenade launcher, but its usually when they are acting very predictable with a left right strafe or in my face. I usually end up killing both of us if I don't have a medic on me...

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I hate snipers, completely.

Once I was a fully healed heavy and I got into a close range battle with a sniper with a Razorback. I got first attack since I was using Tomislav, when he suddenly scoped in and killed me. That shouldn't be possible, each new weapon they give Sniper makes him a little more overpowered. Hell, I can't even kill a Sniper in a close range battle as a PYRO anymore.

I wouldn't say overpowered, at all. If you're a good sniper you're a a force to be reckoned with.

They're meant for massive single target damage, which is what they're good for. Picking off important enemies by prioritizing your targets. (Heavy/Medic)

If the sniper was not able to kill ONE enemy with one shot, he wouldn't be much of a helpful class.

ALSO. Sniper requires a great amount of accuracy. If you can pop-shot with headshots, you're even more deadly. As well as utilizing your charge on the sniper rifle so that you are sure to kill the enemy in one headshot.

Snipers are not overpowered.

P.S. The razorback does nothing to help the sniper BUT block one backstab attempt.

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. . .each new weapon they give Sniper makes him a little more overpowered. . .

In all honestly, the Vanilla Sniper Rifle is still the best Sniper weapon, IMO. Both the Sydney Sniper and Machina (as much as people love it) favor body-shots. As long as you are reliable with head-shots--which you should be if you're playing Sniper--you don't really benefit much from the Machina. And the Sydney Sniper is well. . .the Sydney Sniper.

The Sydney Sniper and Machina are alternate choices for people who don't want to stress about head-shots, and they're alright, but they're effectiveness is ultimately capped compared to Vanilla Sniper.

The Huntsman is good too I think, for mid-range sniping--I hate using the Huntsman, but that's just my opinion. I've seen people do some pretty good stuff with it.

Oh, and then there is the Bazaar Bargain which is the opposite of the both Sydney Sniper and Machina; it favors head-shots to a punishing degree. I honestly think its too punishing but if you're getting you're ass-kicked with a Bazaar Bargain Sniper then chances are he'll kick your ass with any rifle. Pro Sniper right there.

In other words--

Snipers are not overpowered.

Edited by Rainbro Dash

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P.S. The razorback does nothing to help the sniper BUT block one backstab attempt.

I know that, I said that just to let people know he couldn't have damage me with a secondary

Also, I was saying that a sniper should not be able to win in a close range battle with 300/200/175 health classes

Edited by Rainbow-Jack79

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Also, I was saying that a sniper should not be able to win in a close range battle with 300/200/175 health classes

Hm, A good sniper could do this quite easily.

A few ways I suppose. I'm still learning to Snipe, but it's my mane class I suppose (I'm still awful at it).

If you have a HIGHLY powered Bazaar bargain, having gotten a shitload of headshots in a row, then taking out a 300 class at close range should be a cinch. Just scope in a pop a single headshot immediately.

Also, a Jarate plus Bushwaka combo would be deadly, in the right hooves.

I'm not even pretending I know that much about sniper, but I tend to watch other snipers, and learn from their mistakes, as well as watch how they do what they do.

Edited by Sherb

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The Huntsman is good too I think, for mid-range sniping--I hate using the Huntsman, but that's just my opinion. I've seen people do some pretty good stuff with it.

The Huntsman seems like the best Sniper primary weapon; usually best for close to mid combat. Besides, I uncomfortably dislike having to snipe due to different 8-way movements from each player, and having to be far back.

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It's always a good feeling when a Scout is trying to get up in your grill, you scope in and see that amazing -150 right above his head. It truly is a great feeling.

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It's always a good feeling when a Scout is trying to get up in your grill, you scope in and see that amazing -150 right above his head. It truly is a great feeling.

For some reason Scouts always run into my arrow when I use the huntsman

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For some reason Scouts always run into my arrow when I use the lucksman

Fix'd.

Anyways, I know that the Widowmaker is definitely better than Frontier Justice for a Battle Engy.

But is Widowmaker also better for the Normal Engy?

Or maybe the vanilla shotgun for the normal?

Edited by Dellobow

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Frontier Justice + Pistol / Lugermorph + Gunslinger = Offensive Engie: Gunslinger allows a quick-building mini-sentry; destruction of said sentry allows a couple crit kills for the Frontier Justice, and pistol is just pistol, have fun with it

Shotgun + Wrangler + Wrench / Jag = Defensive Engie: Wrench and Wrangler create a combination of a great Lv. 3 Sentry....and shotgun is just shotgun, which is better than FJ.

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Frontier Justice + Pistol / Lugermorph + Gunslinger = Offensive Engie: Gunslinger allows a quick-building mini-sentry; destruction of said sentry allows a couple crit kills for the Frontier Justice,

Yea, only if your Sentry gets kills.

In the event that it doesn't, I believe Widowmaker would be better. It is basically a shotgun with a lot of ammo (if you get your shots in) without reloading.

A shotgun with only 3 shots is too crippling for my taste.

Edited by Dellobow

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fj is horrible for gunslinger.... then you have to use the pistol, and wrangler is quite good with slinger.

Stock shotgun is really good, better than widowmaker most of the time as it lets you drop your sentry a few times in a fight.

Haven't met many good teams that let me rush over their dead to pick up metal.

What are you doing with widowmaker, going to shoot for 5 seconds and then run out of ammo and run away?

Or spam pistol because you don't have wrangler (and also you have no sentry/metal because you spammed it all away?)

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Frontier Justice + Pistol / Lugermorph + Gunslinger = Offensive Engie: Gunslinger allows a quick-building mini-sentry; destruction of said sentry allows a couple crit kills for the Frontier Justice,

Yea, only if your Sentry gets kills.

In the event that it doesn't, I believe Widowmaker would be better. It is basically a shotgun with a lot of ammo (if you get your shots in) without reloading.

A shotgun with only 3 shots is too crippling for my taste.

Same way I feel about rockets. That one extra rocket with the vanilla launcher on soldier goes a long way. Especially for ubers.

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What are you doing with widowmaker, going to shoot for 5 seconds and then run out of ammo and run away?

Edited by Dellobow

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Negevs & I--the two top battle engis on the server both tried the buffed Widowmaker and came to the conclusion that you lose a lot of metal for the dubious honor of no reloading. Six bullets is, surprisingly, a lot.

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It's more than six if you can aim.

EEEEYUP, and you can build a sentry/mini sentry, teleporter, and dispenser all at Lv 3 if you can aim.

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It's more than six if you can aim.

Except not all shots can get 30 damage every time. Meatshots are great and all, but engis fight at midrange, where meatshots deal 20-25 damage most of the time.

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It's more than six if you can aim.

Except not all shots can get 30 damage every time. Meatshots are great and all, but engis fight at midrange, where meatshots deal 20-25 damage most of the time.

But even while doing 20-25 damage you'll still be getting more than 6 shots assuming you have 200 metal.

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