Rainy

[Versus Ponyville] Weapon Suggestions

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Pyro weapon changes (most of them) as per the WHYY google doc.

So I was wondering, is there any chance for my Vaccinator suggestions to go through? I really feel that the vaccinator could be quite the sidegrade with the suggested buffs. Here's the document in case it was lost in a sea of replies https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_j5wFL-pYK1PI8meKOF3OdjgQdfawtuNAb9h_oY0Pmc/edit?usp=sharing

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Pyro weapon changes (most of them) as per the WHYY google doc.

So I was wondering, is there any chance for my Vaccinator suggestions to go through? I really feel that the vaccinator could be quite the sidegrade with the suggested buffs. Here's the document in case it was lost in a sea of replies https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_j5wFL-pYK1PI8meKOF3OdjgQdfawtuNAb9h_oY0Pmc/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

Sorry, I must have missed it. I will look over your doc and look at the vaccinator.

 

 

 

 

About the HHH, should I reduce the amount of heads on the eyelander shield regen to 10 also then? Because raising the amount of heads on the HHH will be too detrimental to an unhealable demoman.

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About the HHH, should I reduce the amount of heads on the eyelander shield regen to 10 also then? Because raising the amount of heads on the HHH will be too detrimental to an unhealable demoman.

 

 

Thea amounts of heads for shield regen for the Eyelander should not be reduced to 10. The Eyelander is already powerful from the beginning.

 

About what you just said on the HHH, it's not going to make too painful if the amount of heads is being raised. The Demo can switch to other weapons for heal or collect medkits or use dispensers (even by going full demoknight).

 

By raising the amount of heads needed, does not make it underpowered.

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I think a good change to the Headtaker would be decreasing its pre-HHH damage by a bit so its not too overwhelming before he turns.

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This reminds me, why exactly do hales have random crits? I think they're powerful enough at they are, random crits are the bane of any overhealed player. I suggest removing random crits from hales. (I swear, I've seen Luna swing 5 times in a row, all random crits)

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This reminds me, why exactly do hales have random crits? I think they're powerful enough at they are, random crits are the bane of any overhealed player. I suggest removing random crits from hales. (I swear, I've seen Luna swing 5 times in a row, all random crits)

All for this, but not sure if it'll ever happen. Heck, nerf KGBs if you have to, random crits are just a stupid game mechanic.

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If I may... I wouldn't vote for the removal of random crits at all, but I'd rather vote for the removal of increased crit chances.

A snippet from the wiki (wich I assume is also true for vsp, if not... ignore this post, 'kay?): 
Melee weapons are designed to crit far more often than ranged ones in order to encourage their usage at close range. Their base crit chance starts at 15% - higher than attainable for ranged weapons with the recent damage bonus maxed out - and their recent damage bonus scales from 0% to 45%, meaning a player that has done 800 damage or more in the last 20 seconds has a melee crit rate of 60%.

Or, to put it simpler: base chance for a melee crit is 15%, wich increases to 60% if at least 800 damage is done in the last 20 seconds.
So, since it's 
ridiculously easy to do 800 damage as a hale in 20 seconds, the hale is more likely to score a random crit- than a normal hit.

So, I would rather vote to keep the crit chance at 15% at all times. (although it was fun to go on 5-crit sprees, especially with NMM who already has a 400% damage bonus, talk about overkill...)

Edit: I have no idea why some is in white, just ignore that.

 

Edited by Koekelbag

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supposedly i couldn't use internet explorer to copy and paste for some reason so i finnaly have found the way to copy and paste woohoo

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pQlA9lkXByTSicEfEYgii0K9SCV7P-6Ed4Gcv048Ga8/edit?usp=sharing

Going to answer some of the ideas I didn't like much.

 

 

 

Why should the Shotgun have reduced clip size when it's fine with every classes.

 

The Widowmaker should not get removed as last alive person, as it's to blame the hale for killing the Widowmaker user earlier. Abilities should not be removed because some weps has a good way to use it.

 

The Rescue Ranger is a good weapon and does not need a buff, otherwise it would become op. Engies who knows good strategies does really good with this and makes them powerful.

 

The Pistol and Luger, It's the opposite where the Pistol has more accuracy and the Luger has more damage. They are fine.

 

Wrangler received "No falling damage".

 

The Gunslinger is fine. I've seen how it's used, and can add alot damage to engi if he keeps building and being sneaky. Not necessary to add +2 metal regen.

Edited by ThunderRunner
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1st off the shotgun reduction of ammo dosnt need to be for everyclass but it already has a reload speed increase why the need of 2 more bullets in the chamber?

2nd your state just incourages people to go for engies first/tunnel and rage them as usual the only problem with this weapon is last man where if the the guy is in a corner or a good spot he can deal about 3k damge with no sentry with the crits

 

The resuce ranger is getting used more I noticed but people rarely shoot that hale with it and tend to relend on there pistol since the gun takes prediction where aiming and luck increasing the clip will encourage the person to shoot the hale with the guna and also be able to make his sentry atleast survive 3hits against the hale directly if raged or hit

 

The pistol and Luger are 2 total diffrent weapon used for classes and 1 requires an achivement to unclok or $15 I just want to make these 2 weapons into 1 giving them better accuracy and the damg bonus so people dont have to equip the luger or the stock pistol for either attributes instead of getting both

I missed the wrangler no fall damage

 

The problem with the gunslinger is that its nearly impossible to get ammo when other people are alive and constanly taking it and you rarely build a dispenser depending on the map and how cheap the sentrys are to maxamize your damge oupout with sentrys than hunkering down with a minisentry that will not protect you. The metal regen would make this weapon more usable in close quarter maps which are alot in the selection

Thanks for putting your concerns so I can explain some more on the problems that need to be fixed

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Just some thoughts:
 

1st off the shotgun reduction of ammo dosnt need to be for everyclass but it already has a reload speed increase why the need of 2 more bullets in the chamber?

Because the stock shotgun is just that bad, compared to alternatives. There's a reason almost no-one uses the stock shotty as his main damage dealer, although it's a nice secondary for cherry tapping. No need to make it even more weak.

 

2nd your state just incourages people to go for engies first/tunnel and rage them as usual the only problem with this weapon is last man where if the the guy is in a corner or a good spot he can deal about 3k damge with no sentry with the crits

If the engie is in fact last man standing, he would already have run out of ammo at the 1.5k mark... also,  there's this funny thing called "rage". Removing the widowmaker upon LMS is just a big middlefinger to any engie who likes wranglers with a back-up metalshotty.
 

 

The resuce ranger is getting used more I noticed but people rarely shoot that hale with it and tend to relend on there pistol since the gun takes prediction where aiming and luck increasing the clip will encourage the person to shoot the hale with the guna and also be able to make his sentry atleast survive 3hits against the hale directly if raged or hit

If you really want to damage the hale... just go frontier justice, it's so much better as a damage dealer. There's a reason the frontier is considered the aggresive engie while the ranger is considered the sentry-engie. Also... fun fact, but you need at least 3 bolts to heal a single hale hit, no way a raged sentry will survive for mrore than 2 hits, even with your stats.

 

The pistol and Luger are 2 total diffrent weapon used for classes and 1 requires an achivement to unclok or $15 I just want to make these 2 weapons into 1 giving them better accuracy and the damg bonus so people dont have to equip the luger or the stock pistol for either attributes instead of getting both

 

Fun fact: both pistols eventually do the same damage at the end. Sure, the luger does more damage per shot... but the stock pistol easily makes that up by hitting shots the luger would miss (due to increased accuracy and reload speed). Sure, Damage per shot may be different, but damage per second is eventually the same, no need to change these.

 

The problem with the gunslinger is that its nearly impossible to get ammo when other people are alive and constanly taking it and you rarely build a dispenser depending on the map and how cheap the sentrys are to maxamize your damge oupout with sentrys than hunkering down with a minisentry that will not protect you. The metal regen would make this weapon more usable in close quarter maps which are alot in the selection.

 

This is just other players being jerks, to be honest... that is, if they don't know you need that ammo to build a dispenser.
If they know that you rather build a mini instead of a dispenser... then no stat-change are gonna make a difference.
Just build a dispencer first, it's much faster to do a dispenser-mini-teleporter than a mini-dispenser-teleporter setup.


As for your other suggestions...
-Circuit just makes the hale a buffet for spies and ubersaws, not to mention multiple engies stunlocking the hale.
-Since when does the widowmaker get metal on hits in VSP? I'm pretty sure that stat was removed, exactly because of how op that sounded.
-Bad spellengie is bad
-Sure, 5 level 3 sentries on the map, see how you would like it as a hale

 

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1st off ive been on servers that have engineres that are like 5 + and the game is pretty balanced since its bascailly the same maps on the server but its more of a challenge to get the engies which is well done sure you might need to rage if theres a sentry nest of level 3 all right there but there is no big deal about it since the server just goes for engies right when they see one

2nd also on servers that uses the shortcircuit as a stunlock (1 german server I play on so far) there the spam wouldnt even do much since you can still move around and i have never seen engineers running toward me with the shortcircuit sure they might spam it but in the end i still have the chance to hit them since the melee is faster than the stun when hit. (1st why would medics even be close to the boss unless there medic chaining very rare) spys on the server would take advantage if this but since you are stunned you will be pu in tp for that time frame then back to fp or already tp.

 

When i go spell engie which is bascailly unbalnced maps and when I get bored the widomaker does give the ammo back on hit i have never tested this on a reg loadout since i have plenty for vsp engie already.

 

The Gunslinger is just a major problem in my opinion on the server its not them being jerks everyone needs ammo but when is the time to build a dispenser as a gunslinger since its waisting the time and damge and will usually just get destroyed. The fact of the problem with this is all the maps are modifed to have small ammo packs which make no reason why so thats why im just suggesting a ammo regen if they dont want to change the ammo packs.

 

Yes i am aware of the hits on a sentry my mistake but i more talking about like a minio attacking it or like a ranged special like vinylz wubz that can hurt it over time. Many people just use what they want most use stock and others just anything which is fine. Many people use this weapon to get this out of a rage if they are far away or put it somewhere and then cap by there tele once the sentrs destroyed they will just repeat the process, this weapon does give more metal regen which I do like.

Widomaker

did it ever occur to you with this weapon that the engie will be next to a dispener jokes aside

For the pistols overtime they do become one but you are going to have extreme luck to be second or last to have both of the stats. Why can't we just save time and combine them into 1 its just a reskin like festives but they dont get diffrent attributes

Stock

The gun is fine in engineers some are agressive and use the frontier justice which is time to time but the stock is used more variety and is more of a far range shooter ur just a damge output. The stock is well the stock but too buffed in my seeing.

Some other vsp servers

They do give the frontier justice the crits when sentry has view of the hale and might tweak some more weapons but no metal regen since you will always start at 200 metal.

Whats your problem with spell engie? I just find it funny that people use it and when they hale realizes the engineer is a spell engine they are less likely to get tunneled. They are not that powerful as sniper or spell medics.

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Spell Engie's are useless.

Have went over this so many times, yet people still do it for some reason.

 

To keep it short, its like a battle medic in a pub. You might be top scoring with damage or kills, but you aren't doing your job, and you're taking up a limited slot. Basically denying a dispenser for your whole team, which is why I seriously consider it to be griefing at some levels.

 

But then again, playing seriously is looked down upon, and I'm sorry for wanting to play the game.

Edited by Col(gate)
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I think my suggestion for the Quick-Fix got put it wrong, it wasn't the stats I wanted on it.

The stat that got added was a slower uber rate for the medi gun itself (9), while I actually wanted a slower uber rate for other Medics healing the person with the Quick-Fix. I realized that I don't think there's a stat for this though, there's only one to make the Ubercharge rate faster for the healer (239?). Is it possible to put in a negative attribute and get that stat to work backwards? (I have no idea how weapon attributes work)

 

Also would like to put in a suggestion similar to my Quick-Fix one for the Battalion's Backup. Remove the heal block, add slower healing, but make the uber slower, basically the same thing.

 

Sorry if this makes absolutely no sense.

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Also would like to put in a suggestion similar to my Quick-Fix one for the Battalion's Backup. Remove the heal block, add slower healing

I also have a suggestion for the battalion's backup and all other soldier banners. Make the weapon switch to the banner in an instant and have it be used instantly when triggered instead of going through the whole "horn" animation. I find myself getting murdered as I'm using any banner cause I'm defenseless and you can't avoid a hit from the hale at heavy speed. So the suggestion is:

Buff Banner

Concheror

Batallion's Backup

 

+Instant weapon switch

+Instant effect when used

-idk, pick something

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Also would like to put in a suggestion similar to my Quick-Fix one for the Battalion's Backup. Remove the heal block, add slower healing

I also have a suggestion for the battalion's backup and all other soldier banners. Make the weapon switch to the banner in an instant and have it be used instantly when triggered instead of going through the whole "horn" animation. I find myself getting murdered as I'm using any banner cause I'm defenseless and you can't avoid a hit from the hale at heavy speed. So the suggestion is:

Buff Banner

Concheror

Batallion's Backup

 

+Instant weapon switch

+Instant effect when used

-idk, pick something

 

That's the point with banners.

 

Those will give useful rewards while making the Solly vulnerable for some seconds and if those you mentioned were added, it can make some of them op *couch* much battalions *couch*

 

The Buff Banner and Concheror rewards with ammo and health if held out which is also why they have 50% longer weapon switch and you would understand why the BB has it too.

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To be fair, most of the banners are hardly used, and I would love a normal weapon change speed instead of the nerfed one. As for the instant activation of the banner, that would be a bit too much.

 

Seriously, almost no one uses the Buff Banner, and when they do, I don't even think they do it for the ammo regen, it takes just so long for it to be useful. Before it got nerfed and it was +50% or so after the 5 seconds (or whatever it was), it was actually somewhat useful. Now its a mere +25% after 5 seconds (or something), so it makes you have to stand around for 20+ seconds to get full ammo, while being completely vulnerable, which is just something I don't want to have to do.

 

When it comes to the Conch, I love the thing, but it's gotten nerfed so heavily, that I don't use it very often. The longer weapon switch time makes me too careful about using it, then the slower walk speed while its active? Don't get me started on why that's annoying. Also because of the changes about everything being active, it makes the passive 3 hp regen only when active, so that's almost completely useless.

 

The Backup was probably easily the best backpack before, it's still fairly good now, so I can understand not wanting to buff it too much. I really just want the heal block removed from most weapon that have it, since its an annoying stat to have to deal with as a Medic.

 

Tl;dr: People will use the Gunboats 95% of the time no matter what. The backpacks shouldn't be nerfed so much.

 

Suggestions:

Remove the weapon change penalty on all of them.

Conch: remove the extra health from health packs while active, remove slower walk speed while active.

Banner: Buff the ammo gain when active.

Backup: Read my last post.

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