Rainy

[Versus Ponyville] Weapon Suggestions

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It took me so long to get that accuracy nerf removed on the Scattergun, don't you dare touch it. It's complete garbage with an accuracy nerf. I'm too lazy to comment on the rest for now, but do not nerf the accuracy on that thing again, I beg.

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Alright, will write out an actual post this time.

Wall of text.

 

Scatter:

It's difficult as it is to get decent damage, it has more bullets already, a faster firing speed and more ammo isn't worth the accuracy drop if you ask me. The health drain I actually don't mind, but to be honest, it does NOT fix the problem it was put in to fix. When a bad Scout sees his health dropping, what's the first thing he does? He either spams "Medic!", hides inside a dispenser, or takes all of the health packs for himself. There's really no reason for this to exist, but I don't want the accuracy dropped and the rest of it buffed.

I say just make it default, I'm not entirely sure why everything HAS to be changed.

 

Babyface:

Not entirely sure on changing this overall, it seems fine how it is currently, but I haven't used it recently.

 

Backscatter:

Currently pretty underrated weapon as it is. Full crits from behind makes it pretty decent if you can stay behind the hale and not catch their attention. I don't really understand why you'd change it like this, it just seems kind of unecessary and pointless to do it.

 

Soda Popper:

That health gain would be way too much, if you think the fall damage is too much, then just give it "User takes no fall damage" or use the Pocket Pistol with it. That extra jump is going to make it even worse when paired with the Winger, so I'd completely disagree on changing it like this. I don't personally like it currently, since it's forcing the "goomba scout" loadout, when I actually really enjoy the weapon how it is default.

 

Force-a-Nature:

With that many bullets, it'll still do more damage then the stock scatter, even with that damage penalty. I currently like how it is, removing secondary, while it's actually extremely powerful as it is, since you can risk getting close because of the knockback, and it does more then stock if I remember correctly.

 

Shortstop:

Completely disagree on this one, slowing the scout that badly makes it so you have no reason to be playing scout in the first place. Taking away the jump is alright, because it doesn't completely take away your mobility, you still have your speed. While if you removed your speed, but left the jump, it would basically completely remove your ability to run at all, and you'd end up just being a bad shotgun Pyro. I think it's alright how it stands.

 

Flying Guillotine:

This I can agree on, it's pretty awful as it is, with the speed nerf, and because teammates block most of your cleavers anyways. It doesn't work very well as a primary because it's fairly difficult to hit anything with it. A faster regen, no minicrits on fire/airborn, and still giving a primary does sound alright to me.

 

Mad Milk:

This I don't mind since it encourages players to actually use it, and not be so greedy as to use a damage weapon. Not sure if buffing the health is necessary though, but a faster regen would be sweet.

 

Winger:

This I don't see a point in changing, it's extremely useful as it is, since the jump isn't just when active, but passive. It does decent damage on its own, not as good as the pistol, but you're sacrificing that for more mobility.

 

Pocket Pistol:

To be fair, I've hardly use this at all, since it got changed, does it actually give health right now? Either way, I don't see a point in completely removing the "no fall damage" attribute, since that was all it was good for before. I do think it should get buffed possibly though.

 

Stock Pistol:

To begin, I don't think it's possible to give ammo back on hit, unless its metal for Engineer. That would be a bit too much anyways, and I don't see a point in buffing it like that. I do personally think the Luger is a lot better then the Pistol though. Sure, you hit more shots, but it's not even half of what the Luger would get you it seems like. I'd say just keep the accuracy it currently has, but remove the damage penalty. Luger could stay how it is, but I see how some people would like them combined into a single weapon, since some can't even acquire one.

 

Crit-a-Cola:

Yeah, I do think it's actually bugged to regen slower, but not sure about the change speed, at least make it when active, instead of an overall slower change speed, that would make it pretty awful. I don't currently like how it drops health though, paired with the Sandman, you get a measly 75 hp, and with the Scattergun on top of that, you're losing health over time too.

 

Sun-on-a-Stick:

Currently extremely underrated and underused. To be honest, its a fairly good hit-and-run weapon as it currently stands, as long as there's no Pyros on your team. It would be pretty decent like this, but it requires you to rely on having Pyros on your team, which is why it's so awful how it is in stock TF2. I suggest to keep it as it is.

 

Fan-o-War:

To be honest, I hate how it currently is. It has straight upgrades with no downsides, same goes for the Holy Mackerel. How long would you want the slow to be? To be honest, my suggestion would be to just make it extremely stupid by increasing the attack speed by a massive amount (more then it is currently), but while giving it a damage penalty of a lot, just so you can be an annoyance with it. :P (+100% attack speed, -50% damage maybe?)

 

Boston Basher:

This I don't like, Scout doesn't need an increased speed boost that he can use whenever he wants. How this is set up would encourage stalling scouts to just be useless and run around when it's active, and hardly anyone Basher jumps as it is. Also, giving it a damage penalty will actually lower your jump height, so even with the buff to that, it'll still be lower then default with these stats. Not to mention pairing this with your Soda Popper would allow for almost infinite jump spamming with the healing. I don't entirely like how it is now, since the bleed buff makes you take more damage yourself, would be nice if the bleed was possibly completely removed, and it reworked just to use for jumping possibly.

 

Sorry for so much disagreeing, I just don't think scout needs his weapons completely changed like this, I'd prefer slight tweaking to how they work default wise, instead of just completely reworking them when it's unecessary.

Edited by Col(gate)
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One thing that you seemed to have glossed over while reading it is scout takes the most actual skill. This in its own justifies the scattergun accuracy lowering, due to a good scout being able to know how to approach and land shots efficiently. The BFB will be used to punish hales that are incompetent and can not outplay the scout. The scout will be racking up damage while the hale can't do anything about it, but the scout HAS to do the damage or else he will not be able to make plays to stay alive easily without the boost. If you did the math, which I did, the force a nature will be doing only about 2 more damage than the scattergun which isn't much of a big deal. But the main reason behind so many shots is to increase the knockback. The weapon is LITERALLY MEANT TO REWARD PLAYERS AIMING WELL BY DEALING IMMENSE KNOCKBACK. But 90% of hales have knockback reduction, so that makes it more ineffective than it actually is. I do agree that the regen on the soda popper max be a little too great, but it is still very helpful for goomba scout with the higher jump. The three rune/basher is meant to be used WITH the goomba scout to be able to reach further distances and acquire the goombas. Keep in mind registration is wonky, so you'll never know if you'll land it until you do, hence health regen to help get you back on the track of goombaing. The shortstop will be the powerhouse of the scout's artillery. It will be similar to the Phlog in the aspect that you sacrfice survivability (in this case, airblast for pyro, speed for scout) for raw damage. Keep in mind shortstop has better accuracy than any other scattergun, so it will be the sniper rifle of the scout's primaries, thus you won't need to be up close, THUS, you won't need the speed. With so many other viable options, the mad milk will be used for survivability and support. Health rewards you for sacrificing a high damage potential secondary for being a team player. And without a health regen, it would wear off too fast to be helpful, and that's WHEN it lands. The pocket pistol will be what the old stock was, but is now a secondary instead of a primary and doesn't give constant pressure to the scout. Winger is meant to give survivability with map control, especially on maps like granary and farm fued that can abuse the props and buildings to give the hale a hard time. For the stock pistol, I feel 60% accuracy isn't ENOUGH, since this is going to be the pistol you will rely upon for doing the most damage when compared to the other pistols. But the main issue with it besides that, is ammo. You spam and spam, land about only 10 shots max bc of body blocking, shit hitbox matching with model, and spread, and you're out of ammo. The ammo on hit is meant to prevent that and help it be a little more reliable for damage. I've also used a pistol before with 100% accuracy on another hale server where hales have accurate models, you won't land too many even with a shitton of ammo and accuracy, so it won't make a difference. The slow on the fan of war will be unpredictable unless if you test how long the stun is on a point blank natascha bullet, because it's based on distance. I actually wanted the stats to be -30% slower firing speed, on hit: target is slowed by 70% for 3 seconds, to make it viable as a high-risk high-reward weapon that can help the team, kind of like what it does in normal gameplay. And the boston basher will be used for goomba scout and, quite possibly, anyone else that is skilled enough to basher jump. You will use it to help cover a greater distance in the air. If it is necessary, we may put a health drain when active on it, if posssible. Just keep in mind, all these weapons' efficiency are purely dependent on the player. Can you aim, can you stafe, can you predict, do you understand the mechanics of the game? These are natural as any class, but is most important for scout's gameplay. You have to be skilled in the game and what you do. Survivability is what scout needed because all the other shit crammed into this gamemode makes that a challenge worth recognition on its own. These are just what I have felt in the past months and years with this community, as I haven't seen many changes to the mercs for the better since spells, and sometimes change is all that we need. Each weapon has its own role in the scout's arsenal, but with everything that has been done, I feel these changes make their distinctiveness more seeable and recognizable.

Edited by Sanic Aboomu ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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-snip-

If scout takes more skill to do damage, you would think we WOULDN'T nerf the accuracy. The logic behind making it more difficult to do damage on an already difficult class to do high damage makes absolutely no sense.

 

If you guys wanted the Babyface to be full speed like it is in stock tf2? No, that's too much, and it won't happen. With the health drain or not, it will still be way too fast if you can land a decent amount of shots, and there won't be much you can do as a hale, even with good strafing.

 

The FaN already has a decent amount of knockback, it already does more damage then the stock Scattergun. There's no reason to increase the knockback, it's not supposed to fling the hale across the map, it's just supposed to protect you in the moment. You don't need airblast as a Scout, you still have your speed AND your jump to defend yourself, which is why it's nerfed so heavily to begin with.

 

When it comes to the Soda Popper, having health regen like that just won't work at all. Keep in mind this would counter a lot of other rages that just do damage to you, and you can just heal it out. If the Basher was meant to be used with the Soda Popper, what do you expect? A Scout with 6 or so jumps that can jump twice as high with the Basher, AND heal the damage he causes? What is the point of that? How is this not obviously overpowered? The Winger with the Soda Popper currently is more then enough to get goombas, while I don't necessarily like the idea of forcing the goomba-scout loadout with it, it can be extremely effective how it is if used correctly, I don't think a change to either is needed.

 

When it comes to the Shortstop, again, like I said before, why would you completely Scout's biggest advantage for a measly 30% damage bonus? I know it's more accurate, but seriously, the downside easily outweighs the upsides, this will make it completely worthless as a weapon. The difference between this and the Phlog is that the Phlog actually has a massive damage bonus, it's not just 30%, what is it still 100% at least now? (I forget, sorry) Also you need to keep in mind that Phlog pyros still have the option of Flare/Det jumping, which doesn't render them completely useless like this Shortstop would. 2 jumps without any sort of speed advantage is next to useless.

 

The Milk is reasonable buffing, as many people don't use it when they could have another weapon, or another tool to increase their own damage output. The health buffing seems incredibly pointless though considering the health drain on the stock Scatter would be gone with these stats, unless you intend to use it with the BFB. Just suggest a faster regen speed like I mentioned before.

 

The Pistols I can understand buffing a tad. It's pretty difficult to hit shots with the hitboxes and bodyblocking, but just don't make it a Sniper Rifle. I'm fine for improving it, but just watch how much you improve it.

 

 

Lastly, keep in mind that Scout is the EASIEST CLASS TO SURVIVE WITH. This is why people despise fighting them so much. Damage is indeed hard to get as a Scout with his weaker weapons, but the point of Scout isn't to be top scoring. It is possible from a top-tier Scout, sure, but it's not really the point of the class. Scout's best use would probably be for distraction and support. Hale's who tunnel Scouts a lot end up losing quite often, because they don't have correct priorities. Not to mention a good Sandman Scout can be a pretty big annoyance to the hale, and even help Spies get stabs at times. TL;DR: Class is easy to survive with, doesn't need to be doing Jag Engineer damage without much effort.

 

Look at it this way, most classes have ways to survive on their own, but at a cost.

1) Soldier takes health from rocket jumping.

2) Pyro takes ammo from airblast/health from flare/det jumping.

3) Demo takes time to get heads and decent pipe aim to defend himself/health for sticky jumping

4) KGB Heavy takes health, minigun heavy doesn't really have a lot to defend himself.

5) Engineer takes time to set up

6) Medic takes time to build uber

7) Sniper to be honest can't defend himself default set wise, but he does high damage from a far distance, so his advantage is that

8) Spy takes cloak time and would take health watches were fixed.

 

You see, Scout has literally no downsides when it comes to survivability. His run isn't limited, his jumping isn't limited. This is why he doesn't need to have extremely powerful weapons, or any more buffed ways to defend himself. This is why you don't need to heavily buff it so much.

Edited by Col(gate)
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Okay, if you wish to make it seem like scout should be easy to play, let's go over why effort should be a factor.

 

Scattergun:

With wonky hit register, high ping players, and rage spam from a large portion of the hales, you still aren't going to live well enough off of just scattergun stats. Yes, you will have to be up close and personal to deal damage, yes, this is a very risky thing, but that's what scout does. That is also why we made the other weapons how the are, to hopefully help alleviate a fraction of these hardships. Scouts are one of the most commonly raged class all because they're scout. Doesn't matter if they're good or bad, they are raged for the sheer fact that they are an annoying class. The scattergun makes you have to deal with that constant threat all the time, but as I've mentioned before, it won't be just the scattergun you will rely upon.

 

Force-A-Nature:

No. What you seem to misunderstand 90% of hales here have a near 30% NATURAL knockback reduction. In the original Freak Fortress 2 and Saxton Hale gamemodes, only one hale had knockback reduction. HHHH Jr. with a whopping 40%. But he wasn't a super jump hale like most of these hales, he had normal jump height and a teleport. With the natural push force reduction, the Force-A-Nature does not do what it normally SHOULD do. Hales here do not experience the true pain of actual knockback. Sure, they get pinned by sentries, but once they touch the ground again they're hard as hell to get back up, on top of that is weighdown. Let me share a statement I saw sarysa post. 

 

 

but players aren't meant to be overpowered here. ;P Their knockback is their primary weapon

Well in this case, knockback literally should be scout's primary weapon if it is the force-a-nature. It should be a good shove, not a slight push. It should be a game changer, not a minor inconvenience.

 

Soda Popper:

What I had in mind is scouts using the boston basher's speed buff while in the air with the 6 jumps and even higher jumps thanks to the winger, to acquire near super jump velocities and height. While this may seem overpowered, think about this: It is the only thing he will be able to do with this loadout (unless if you wanna ruin scout and use spells). While that may apply specifically to just that one loadout, that's how I see all loadouts using the Soda Popper being. Only goomba, and if you want, chip damage with secondary and/or melee. When you equip this weapon, you're using it for goombas, and that's what you should be going for.

 

BFB:

This will not be as huge of a threat as you believe. Sure, he's fast, but that doesn't change the fact that it drains passively, upon air jump, and upon taking any type of damage. Stack this on top of the current scattergun's main issue, the drain stacks with hale's rage. This is most notable against hales like Celestia, Pinkamena, and Twilight. Chain lightning will drop it, simply activating rage on Pinkamena will cancel it out, and with Celestia you have to keep moving. The hard part of this weapon will be aiming enough damaging shots to keep your boost up, along with your health.

 

Shortstop:

I really like this shortstop. With the math done correctly, it'll do a rounded 187 crit shot. Now this may not seem like much, but as I said before, you're sniper scout with crit-a-cola. With good aim, you'll be landing 3-4 shots of +100 damage per clip when you drink the cola. The most common example I imagine this on is 2fortdesk, just standing on one of the books or cases, getting 100 damage crit damage each time you fire after a drink. This will stack up over time, just like with sniper. The only difference is, you have a better escape means than sniper (assuming they aren't the scums that use spells). You're STILL FASTER THAN MOST OF THE CLASSES IN THE GAME. The only things that will outspeed you are other classes with speed-enhancing items, hale, and medic. On top of it, you still have more mobility with your double jump to get to higher places and escape hale. Pair this up with boston basher jumping, and you can go places that are out of hale's immediate reach. Also, compare these jumps to battle medics, which people don't like either because of the ham. If you pair it up with the basher or hell, even the ham, the scout can go higher, and even faster than battle medics in the case of the basher :^) Math for your brain: The scout will be less than .5% slower than a medic, so the difference is almost unnoticeable

 

Mad Milk:

When you equip the mad milk, you're going support. There's no doubt about that. But if you can be a helpful support, now that's a different story. For choosing to be a team player over a more self-centered, more powerful secondary such as the crit-a-cola and the pistols, the health buff is going to help with surviving from hales with rages that do dumb shit across the map such as Twilight, Daring-Do, etc. I thought a greater recharge speed would be shut down because then it would be too good, but I agree it needs to be higher.

 

Pistols:

They won't be a sniper rifle in any regard. Nowhere near as much knockback and it still has bullet spread. So on top of the problems I mentioned, they still have spread which make it even more difficult to land the shots.

 

 

 

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, restating quite a number of things, but I can't stress it enough that these are constant issues I think of when I play scout on these servers. I only want what is best for the class, not for the best of the best (that goes to demos and snipers). The reason for these changes is to make scout more reliableconsistent, and efficient in doing his job: annoying the hale to the fullest of his extent. And while I have been saying "I" most of the time, I'd like to thank WHYYYY.EXE for letting me help out with the stats. Anyways, the way you say things makes it seem scout is fine as he is, which he ISN'T. Pressure and limited options plague the scout at the moment. Whether it's the stock, or the bfb, you can never fully enjoy scout without some stupid gimmick or being generally easier to kill. I would know, and while my aim isn't perfect, no matter how hard I try, hits just don't want to register on these models correctly sometimes. If you want scout to be a good support class, don't make everything he has to BE that have either decreased survivability or be too situational for proper use when needed. Okay, I've ranted enough about this, I hope to see scout changed in the near future, and for the better.

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-snip-

To start, I never said i wanted it to be easier to play? I said that I think it takes effort how it is, and that it's fine how it is. It's the easiest class to survive as, but damage is a challenge to get, which i find to be a fair trade off.

 

Scatter

I still disagree on these Scatter stat because I think this will make it a lot tougher to do decent damage as a Scout. It had an accuracy nerf a long while back, and it was really difficult to be at all useful with it unless you were using Crit-a-Cola. Just trust me, the accuracy drop is not worth the bigger clip size, and faster reload speed. Scout is NOT a high risk-high reward class. You shouldn't have to get so close to do sub-par damage. It's too risky for the little payout it gives. These stats you guys want is more of a nerf then a buff.

 

FaN

Trust me, I understood what you meant with the knockback reduction. I've used the thing, and it's still good how it is, which is why I'm disagreeing.

Not to mention allowing a secondary means the use of Crit-a-Cola with it. Crit FaN is a joke to fight, trust me, you don't want to allow secondary again. I'm alright with this getting tweaked slightly, but I do think the damage and knockback it currently has is fine, even with the hale knockback resistance. Even with very little knockback, it still allows you to get extremely close to the hale without many risks, which is what makes it so useful. It shouldn't be forcing them across the map, it's meant to help you so you can get close without many risks, not to fling the hale across the map. If you want to do that, just play pyro.

 

Soda Popper

You seem to want to balance everything around doing damage, and if something doesn't do a lot of damage, it wouldn't be overpowered. Obviously this won't do a lot of damage on its own with the Basher, but with the amount of height you want to be possible? Its obviously way too much. It obviously isn't overpowered damage wise, but it will definitely cause a lot of stalling from Scouts who would find out how easy it is to survive with it.

 

BFB

No matter how you nerf it with the health drain, it will still be a broken weapon having full speed. To be honest, I don't think the passive health drain will even effect the boost meter. Either way, a good scout with this thing will just be a joke to fight, and it would be way too overpowered if you have somewhat decent aim. It's just not worth making the speed that fast, no matter the downsides.

 

Shortstop

Again this, why do you want to change this? This is more of a nerf then a buff. It's currently powerful as it is, except you lose the jump instead of speed, which is easily a less punishing downside. I don't see why you'd nerf this when it's fine how it currently is.

 

Milk

Meh, buff it, I don't mind this one actually. Just don't make it regen too fast and it'll be fine.

 

Pistol

I'm fine buffing the accuracy a bit, just don't overdo it. Ammo is also a pain, so buff that if you want, just watch how much it gets buffed.

 

 

 

There's been way too much text then there should have been, lol. Overall, I just don't want Scout to be buffed to a point where it's easier to survive then it already is. I also don't want damage to be too high on specific weapons, because Scout isn't supposed to be very powerful. I'm fine tweaking a few things, but just don't completely change things when it's not necessary. Don't fix what's not broken. Biggest things I'm against here are the Basher, FaN, and Soda Popper. I can understand tweaking the FaN and Soda slightly, but the health regen on the Soda, and secondary on the FaN isn't necessary. The Basher can probably be changed a bit, since hardly anyone uses it, just don't make infinite jumping possible. You still have the option of the Soda Popper and the Winger, so you don't need to make a melee built around jumping.

 

Anyways, made my points, done with the back and forth arguing about this.

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Thought about the document, played scout a bit more on vsp. My new draft basically just puts everything the scout has at stock level and then adds a tiny little buff to everything. Nothing big, just stuff like reload speed or accuracy simply to balance him out. Scout just has a ton of dumb stuff on his weapons that try to solve the problem of him running around but end up gimping him in other areas for no reason. You are 100% correct, scout does not need a major buff, but he can easily take a slight one so he can stand up to the other classes. Hopefully this document is more to your liking. And it also nerfs some of the overpowered stuff like the baby faces blaster,three rune blade, and fixes straight upgrades like the fan o war.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Edmy_2m4whBQD77ajvdx7i05EXKI7EHrfAT7hwi2DCM/edit?usp=sharing

 

Keep in mind that even if you get weapon suggestions in they wont be the exact same because simple will add some magic to them. 

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-snip-

Definitely looks a lot better for the most part.

Still not all wanting the FaN to give a secondary, just because a Crit-a-Cola boosted FaN is literally the devil.

I'm all for making the Winger only when active, instead of passive, I don't mind that.

Pistols are pretty meh, the buffing is fine.

Completely understand not wanting the afterburn on non-pyro weapons, just hope the Sun-on-a-Stick ends up being useful.

Most the melee weapons I'm fine with.

Shortstop without any movement penalties, but with more damage is fine by me.

Soda Popper seems a bit much with the no fall damage, but I would still like to have it have normal ammo and damage. Not really sure how to tweak it.

Backscatter looks fine.

Scattergun I'm not all entirely sure needs a buff, but I don't mind it as long as there's no accuracy penalty.

BFB looks alright.

Crit-a-Cola, all I ask is to make the penalty when active, and not passive. I don't want to have a penalty changing to my melee because of using the thing.

 

Sorry that it's a bit out of order, might edit it in a bit.

Also apologizes if I seem to come off like I'm in charge of how weapon balancing should go. Obviously my opinion is only as good as everyone else's. I just really don't want things to get changed for the worse, and I want to be careful about how things are changed. 

Edited by Col(gate)

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Honestly I really see what my problem with scout in vsp is now. With pyro it was obvious, he had a ton of weapons that had a ton of stats that needed just a tiny push in the right direction for him to become better and now holds the spot of the most average and fair class in vsp. The problem with scout is now obvious to me as well. He has a ton of random crap on his weapons that hinder him for no reason like -7% movement speed on the soda popper or some of the weapons are just overpowered for no reason like the baby faces blaster with its extra damage and accuracy. With me adding the scouts weapons back to base stats it makes him look BETTER than he is in vsp right now lol.

 

The only thing added to the soda popper is the no fall damage which just stops scout from having to run for hp packs constantly with it. I honestly think if someone is going to be using a gimmicky weapon they should at least be rewarded for giving the effort.

 

The fan has 100% base stats, but it has some weird stuff added onto it for no reason to hinder scouts for using it. The fans push force depends on how much damage the actual blast gives so I don't think it would be too much of a problem to give them a secondary back. The crit a cola thing only gets about one good shot in at best since the other shots will be fired at the boss from far away. The hale can just rush the scout while the crit a cola isn't able to be used.

 

Also i'm doing the exact same thing with the pyro document. I give it to as many people as I can, have them look at and edit the document and after about 2 weeks of peoples ideas and thoughts I send it to reaper and he gives it to simple so he can take a look at it. What you saw the first time was the rough draft and this new one was keeping your thoughts and others in mind.

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Okay, so here's a... maybe temporary fix to the whole "speedy spy" problem.

How about the watches just get a negative movement-speed penalty while cloaked? Like... Would it be possible to attach attribute #183: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 aiming movespeed decreased "%s1% slower move speed while deployed" to cloaks? I know only the brass beast has it in the vanilla game, but would it also work with watches?

Or how about #54: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 move speed penalty "%s1% slower move speed on wearer" and code it so it only activates when the cloak is activated?

Edited by Koekelbag

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Okay, so here's a... maybe temporary fix to the whole "speedy spy" problem.

How about the watches just get a negative movement-speed penalty while cloaked? Like... Would it be possible to attach attribute #183: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 aiming movespeed decreased "%s1% slower move speed while deployed" to cloaks? I know only the brass beast has it in the vanilla game, but would it also work with watches?

Or how about #54: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 move speed penalty "%s1% slower move speed on wearer" and code it so it only activates when the cloak is activated?

No point in fixing the speed problem if the blocking a hit problem doesn't get fixed first. Will just make Spy incredibly useless.

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Okay, so here's a... maybe temporary fix to the whole "speedy spy" problem.

How about the watches just get a negative movement-speed penalty while cloaked? Like... Would it be possible to attach attribute #183: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 aiming movespeed decreased "%s1% slower move speed while deployed" to cloaks? I know only the brass beast has it in the vanilla game, but would it also work with watches?

Or how about #54: 16px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=2011041909283 move speed penalty "%s1% slower move speed on wearer" and code it so it only activates when the cloak is activated?

No point in fixing the speed problem if the blocking a hit problem doesn't get fixed first. Will just make Spy incredibly useless.

 

Been looking through the attribute list for a little... how about #50: 16px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531 absorb damage while cloaked "Absorbs %s1% damage while cloaked"?

Or that one stat on kgbs that lets them take reduced melee damage, a negative vulnerability  (so they take less damage), but for spies only so when the cloak is active?

Err... or has this already been tried? Derp, don't really know :/

Edited by Koekelbag

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Wooo, more double posts.

Noticed that the Freedom Staff (880) and the Bat Outta Hell (939) are straight downgrades when compared to the Pan or Necro Smasher. Possible to give them the +25 max health? (26)

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Wooo, more double posts.

Noticed that the Freedom Staff (880) and the Bat Outta Hell (939) are straight downgrades when compared to the Pan or Necro Smasher. Possible to give them the +25 max health? (26)

And the Freedom Staff used to give them spellbook if equiped but removed for some reason.

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Any reason the sydney sleeper does a flat 120 damage on noscopes, while doing 360 on fully charged shots? Compared to the stock rifle with 140-150 on noscopes and 450-ish on fully charged shots, sydney seems like a straight downgrade.

I mean, I know the sydney charges faster than the stock, but that is already offset by the tremendous loss of the tracker, so why does it do 20% less damage?

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Any reason the sydney sleeper does a flat 120 damage on noscopes, while doing 360 on fully charged shots? Compared to the stock rifle with 140-150 on noscopes and 450-ish on fully charged shots, sydney seems like a straight downgrade.

I mean, I know the sydney charges faster than the stock, but that is already offset by the tremendous loss of the tracker, so why does it do 20% less damage?

The damage is actually inconsistent. Even after Valve turned off damage scaling, it still doesn't give you a consistent amount of damage. Sometimes it does stock rifle damage, while sometimes it does the 120-360. The Classic also has this problem I've noticed.

 

On the topic of Sniper Rifles, to be honest, most of them are pretty much a downgrade. There's no point in using any of them but stock, since the outline is too good to pass up. I think the rest should also get an outline, then be balanced a bit after that, to make them all a bit more useful. Don't have any stat ideas right now though, may list some later.

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Any reason the sydney sleeper does a flat 120 damage on noscopes, while doing 360 on fully charged shots? Compared to the stock rifle with 140-150 on noscopes and 450-ish on fully charged shots, sydney seems like a straight downgrade.

I mean, I know the sydney charges faster than the stock, but that is already offset by the tremendous loss of the tracker, so why does it do 20% less damage?

The damage is actually inconsistent. Even after Valve turned off damage scaling, it still doesn't give you a consistent amount of damage. Sometimes it does stock rifle damage, while sometimes it does the 120-360. The Classic also has this problem I've noticed.

 

On the topic of Sniper Rifles, to be honest, most of them are pretty much a downgrade. There's no point in using any of them but stock, since the outline is too good to pass up. I think the rest should also get an outline, then be balanced a bit after that, to make them all a bit more useful. Don't have any stat ideas right now though, may list some later.

 

Eh, if I hit 5 noscopes in a row and always get 120 damage, while all my fully charged shots do 360 damage as far as I remember, I say it's a flat amount. :pinkieshrug: 

I do agree that pretty much every other rifle right now is a downgrade to the stock (wich is why I said the inability to place a tracer is a gigantic loss), and have raged about in the past mentioned before.

To be honest, I would be happy if the Sydney gets its ability to apply jarate back... working like the normal jarate on vsp, reducing the Hale's rage for a small amount (like 1%) every scoped non-charged hit, taking more rage away if it's a charged shot.

It would still be weaker than the stock rifle in terms of damage or utility, sure... but at least it can be a more viable choice against hales that build rage more slowly (like Octavia or Pinkamena)...

Heck, does it do that already? Derp, no idea on this one.

Edited by Koekelbag

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To be honest, I would be happy if the Sydney gets its ability to apply jarate back... working like the normal jarate on vsp, reducing the Hale's rage for a small amount (like 1%) every scoped non-charged hit, taking more rage away if it's a charged shot.

It would still be weaker than the stock rifle in terms of damage or utility, sure... but at least it can be a more viable choice against hales that build rage more slowly (like Octavia or Pinkamena)...

 

 

I don't think that would be possible, the reason why it worked Fan O' War (might used to remove rage before) and Jarate was because the Fan dealt very little damage to barely add rage and Jarate didn't deal damage against the boss.

 

If rage removal was put to the Sydney Sleeper, the damage it would deal would be increased more than rage lost from shots.

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I think that the manmelter should take away the pyro's primary weapon. They use it like it is their primary so it would be a better balance.

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I think that the manmelter should take away the pyro's primary weapon. They use it like it is their primary so it would be a better balance.

You already lose the ability to Flare jump by running it, so I don't see a huge issue with it. The only issue I might see is running it with spells, but that's an issue with all energy weapons if you ask me.

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Okay, since the whole speedy cloak spies seems a permanent thing now... how about making the dead ringer useful again?

How? Well... what about a passive hp boost?

From some quick math, a hale's 210-damage/hit (on average, non-crit) would do 126 damage to a dr spy, due to that 40% damage reduction on the first hit (at least, I think it's 40%. The actual stats on the wiki aren't updated yet, neither does its weapon description say. So, since the gun mettle said it was reduced by 50% (from the initial 90%), I suppose it's 40% now). So, any non-overhealed spy dies instantly... derp.

Now, if that same dr spy would have... idk, 180 hp instead? The dr would bring the spy's hp down to 54-ish (the same as the old dr used to be), and the speed boost would let the spy get away more easily.

So, give the dead ringer a passive max hp of around 50-60hp, and a spy can survive a single non-crit hit.

But... would you use this? Maybe, I never play spy because of my ping :pinkieshrug:, but I figure that uncloaking with the normal watch is a big give-away to any hale that actually listens, as well that you can play more near the hale's face (ehrm... back) knowing you could actually survive a hit now.

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Vaccinator is somehow more dumb then it used to be. Thanks Valve.

 

Current stats

+50% UberCharge rate (10)

Press your reload key to cycle through resist types.

While healing, provides you and your target with a constant 10% resistance to the selected damage type.

You are healed for 10% of the matched incoming damage on your patient.

-66% Overheal build rate. (479)

-66% UberCharge rate on Overhealed patients. (739)

 

Suggestion

+75% UberCharge rate (10)

Press your reload key to cycle through resist types.

While healing, provides you and your target with a constant 10% resistance to the selected damage type.

You are healed for 10% of the matched incoming damage on your patient.

+50% UberCharge duration. (314)

Nothing negative.

 

 

Considering the nerfs it has on Uber build rate, you just have to wait such a long time, for a measly 2.5 seconds of resists, crits, or speed. The Overheal penalty and Uber penalty definitely need to go, as it makes the Medi Gun completely useless almost. Then a buff to the Uber duration I feel could actually make it somewhat decent.

 

 

Problem is that it's actually still broken though. Ever since Valve completely overhauled the thing, it only actually half works anyways, so it would need to be fixed also. Half the time your Uber works on time, sometimes it's a second or so late for whatever reason.

 

tl;dr

Worst Medi Gun

Edited by Col(gate)
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There is a problem with the Kritzkrieg and the Stock Medi Gun. 

 

When ubering, both medi guns tend to lose their invuln on self at about 20-30% uber remaining. 

 

Nothing changes on the heal target, they get invuln and crits all the way through. 

 

 

 

IF the medi gun losing invuln on self was intended, it is easily blocked by swapping weapons, then going right back to the medi gun. 

 

Thank you~ ❤Derpy❤     :derphatin:

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