[Versus Ponyville] Weapon Suggestions

[Aurotzel 467]

10 hours ago, Juan Tienda said:

So for the past few days, I have learned to appreciate the Vaccinator and its uses, but it still falls behind compared to the other mediguns. Now I'm pretty much just suggesting a single buff: Add 10 or 15% speed for Vacc users. You are never invincible at any given point, always open to random crits, so I suggest a faster running speed to at least dodge a few Freedom Staff swings. Any backers?

I think it's still great how it stands, it's just still broken. Though I would somewhat prefer a consistant Ubercharge rate vs the lower one it has now if you're overhealing a patient.

For example, just remove the less ubercharge on overhealed patients, but lower the overall uber charge rate from 66%, to possibly 50%, so you don't have to rely on injured teammates to build uber. This will also make pocketed KGB heavies less stupid to fight, as the Uber will be a bit slower.

Top priority for the weapon would be fixing it to actually function properly though. 

[ThunderRunner 70]

Still suggesting to change the Reserve Shooter itself.

Right now, it's state is bad and unfair, which most pyros are using it.

Hitscan weapons with afterburn are bad ideas due to the confusion that you don't know how you can dodge hitscans to prevent afterburns which can go from one side of the map to the other side. The balance in it is very bad too, it deals afterburn in first shot with -20% dmg which has any affects due to critting afterwards with a hitscan weapon. Combining it with the Degreases gives a 100% switch speed to the Degreaser which adds instant push once switching, including it's already a strong weapon it provides a strong defense too.

My idea is to remove the afterburn, change the switch speed to deploy speed, add damage bonus (between 15% - 25%), add back mini-crits launched airbone but crits normally. Keep the same ammo penalty.

Hope Simple is looking into this.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by ThunderRunner

[Tuil5 16]

On 01.04.2016 at 5:58 AM, Misty (Music) said:

He meant that if you hold out the big earner (which now gives you passive healing) and you pull out the deadringer, it will activate the deadringer without you being hit. As if it were a normal cloak. Which can EASILY get a spy killed if done at a wrong time; Deadringer gets activated just a second before hale hits the spy, spy takes enough damage to die or get down to around 10-15 health (depending on the hale). I just wish that they would've given it a speed boost on backstab but force the spy to have stock cloak, Or at the very least made it less trash, Maybe give it a ammo regen for his revolver so he doesnt constantly have to search for ammo?

Aha.Thanks for Explaining.^-^

[Tuil5 16]

Hello Everyone i would ask to Tell wich stuff are Broken For now and Just would love to See its fixed and Bring Fair Stats back.

Lets  Start from Pyro.Our Dear Pyro Have Broken Reserve shooter wich will manage to get you Over 500 Damage by 4 shots.With Degreaser is Litteraly Pain in the ass with this weapon.1 Damage Flame and then Spamm Shotgun to get Damage.Even From RED spawn to Blu Spawn on Nucleus You deal 120 damage by 1shot.Wich Are not Fair at Fucking All

2nd Is SPells.God This Thing is Broken As Hell now.EVery single Class getting spells and dont have any Buffs Like Less HP or cant use some Kind of Item.

Engineers on Europe server litteraly playing with Lvl 3 Sentry and Spells Non stop.Nothing can Win without rage.The Pyro With Spells..Wont even talk about this because everyone Know this shit.

Thats what i got for now.If ill find other stuffs i`ll Tell.

[ThunderRunner 70]

19 hours ago, Tuil5 said:

Hello Everyone i would ask to Tell wich stuff are Broken For now and Just would love to See its fixed and Bring Fair Stats back.

Lets  Start from Pyro.Our Dear Pyro Have Broken Reserve shooter wich will manage to get you Over 500 Damage by 4 shots.With Degreaser is Litteraly Pain in the ass with this weapon.1 Damage Flame and then Spamm Shotgun to get Damage.Even From RED spawn to Blu Spawn on Nucleus You deal 120 damage by 1shot.Wich Are not Fair at Fucking All

2nd Is SPells.God This Thing is Broken As Hell now.EVery single Class getting spells and dont have any Buffs Like Less HP or cant use some Kind of Item.

Engineers on Europe server litteraly playing with Lvl 3 Sentry and Spells Non stop.Nothing can Win without rage.The Pyro With Spells..Wont even talk about this because everyone Know this shit.

Thats what i got for now.If ill find other stuffs i`ll Tell.

I can explain the Reserve Shooter with a couple more details than last post. When testing it, it did crit afterburn damage in general dealing 9/tick dmg. When not trying so much, I got over 6k with not so many shots required. 80% pyros is using it and many members wants this changed and my opinion would make it closer to stock.

 

Spell classes could pick ammo after the Tough Break Update, which is fixable though. The only downsides with it is slight health difference and weapon loss for certain classes and weapons. Only weapon loss in the Eu server.

Yes, it's still overpowered and hard to balance. It used to in the past, to remove the primary weapon from the class that's mainly used for him, which in fact made not so many use it as now. Now certain classes are overpowered with it like sniper or crossbow medic (still had primary in the past). When looking at P3, spells removes all primaries making them only rely on spells and does not make too many use it.

[Tuil5 16]

On 22.05.2016 at 0:28 PM, ThunderRunner said:

 

Yes, it's still overpowered and hard to balance. It used to in the past, to remove the primary weapon from the class that's mainly used for him, which in fact made not so many use it as now. Now certain classes are overpowered with it like sniper or crossbow medic (still had primary in the past). When looking at P3, spells removes all primaries making them only rely on spells and does not make too many use it.

Well,Medic isnt That Overpowered with Spells.Engi is.Snipers  eh If person have good aim *wich i dont have* They are Dangerous,I agree.And Removing All Primaries?Eh i dont think its good idea.I think it should be like before the tough Break.Scout with only one Jump and other stuff.

[ThunderRunner 70]

4 hours ago, Tuil5 said:

Well,Medic isnt That Overpowered with Spells.Engi is.Snipers  eh If person have good aim *wich i dont have* They are Dangerous,I agree.And Removing All Primaries?Eh i dont think its good idea.I think it should be like before the tough Break.Scout with only one Jump and other stuff.

I don't see spell crusaders medic with real downsides that's being noticeable. Both weapons removes second slot to serve becoming strong battle medic and health difference is still a one hit shot unless overhealed.

We used to have no primaries on spell users which I didn't see as a bad thing, considering that a spellbook should sacrifice their own weapon into spells. When the system was changed, there became more sniper spell spam. The removal for ammo pickup didn't do much on weapons that already had lots of ammo or didn't run out quickly (still picks ammo after break update).

A nerf was planned for spell sniper was less primary ammo which was a year ago.

[Aurotzel 467]

The issue is that people love abusing stupid combinations with spells to make them better than without. Right now, Sniper, and Crossbow Med are straight upgrades entirely, Pyro is pretty close to being one, even Soldier can be pretty annoying. The old downsides existed for a reason. They were actual downsides. People didn't use spells that often when they removed all of your weapons. Reason? Because they weren't incredibly easy to use, and didn't feel like a straight upgrade on top of normal weapons. People don't use spells because they "like spells". People use spells because they're better than without running spells.

Something needs to be done about the ammo problem still, if they can't fix the no pickups, just nerf the overall ammo at least temporarily while its being looked at. Seriously a temp fix would go so far. I could seriously rant about this the entire day, but it would get really unnecessarily long. Any nerfs would be seriously appreciated right now. Reserve Shooter should be up there on priorities too.

[staryoshi06 11]

As far as I see, the spy-cicle is the same as the normal knife. Suggestion for it:

Unusual effect: Blizzardy storm

+(reasonable)% damage bonus (I don't know what is reasonable)

+50 health

+Afterburn Immunity

+10%(?) faster move speed

+25% faster swing speed

+x% damage resistance (doesn't instantly die from hale)

-Cannot disguise (kit removed)

-Cannot cloak (watch removed)

-Honorbound: Once equipped (auto-equipped at start of round), you cannot switch out until you score a hit.

-Spellbooks cannot be used with this weapon

!On backstab (on boss only, not minions unless high hp minion like bear): Massive amount of damage is done, knife is disabled (regens after 20 secs like normal game), instantly cloaked for 10 seconds and disguised (if killed a high hp minion disguise as minion and don't cloak).

 

[Surprise Pie 40]

On 5/31/2016 at 4:33 AM, staryoshi06 said:

-On backstab (on boss only, not minions unless high hp minion like bear): Massive amount of damage is done, knife is disabled (regens after 20 secs like normal game), instantly cloaked for 10 seconds and disguised (if killed a high hp minion disguise as minion and don't cloak).

In VSP, Backstabs are coded to deal roughly 9% of the Hale's maximum health(which itself is roughly 500 + 1000x the number of players on RED) , whereas in vanilla TF2, backstabs are coded to deal 6 times the victim's current health. Either way, every knife uses identical damage calculation and it would be insanely difficult and time consuming (if even possible) to come up with a new damage calculation for just one knife, especially if you expect this calculation to be balanced.

 

[Zeke Aileron™ 52]

To be honest the Market Gardener needs to revert back into the base VSH stats that it once had, the numbers on the side of the stats are it's TF2 attribute numbers from the wiki.

 

The current Market Gardener stats on the server is this:

• 100% Increased Damage(2)
• Crits while Rocket Jumping(267)
• 20% slower firing speed(5)
• No random crits(15)
• 25% less primary ammo(77)

In VSH, the latest update for Market Garden gave it properties that makes it really good to actually use:

The Market Gardener stats in normal VSH is this:

• Crits while Rocket Jumping(267)
• 20% Slower firing speed(5)
• No random crits(15)

But it also has this line of code to make it function to act the same as a backstab but only if the Soldier Rocket Jumps, and if the Hale get's gardened a sound file plays to alert the Hale they got gardened, same as the backstab sound file.

Market Gardener code file.

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Zeke Aileron™
Fixed the link for the file.

[WHYYYY.EXE 14]

Hi I am back from being so salty for no reason and after playing on other hale servers I have a better understanding of why things in vsp work the way they do so I'm going to be back playing again.

Sorry but I need to add this. By "fixed" I mean that it would be on par with the other weapons in the pyros arsenal. All of these changes aren't huge and therfore aren't very important but I feel like if they got added in we could have pyro be fully balanced, at least in my opinion. The ones that I feel that are the most important though will have a * next to them.

I don't know about other classes but I think pyro is in a pretty good spot besides a few things here and there. I have begun playing vsp again and after playing on some other hale servers i've learned to stop complaining about stupid things like neigh down and stuff and just learned to adapt to it. Anyway here is my pyro list of things that I think could make the class more balanced and have most of the weapons be useful.

*Reserve shooter is broken but I heard you are already fixing it so thats fine. 

*The axtinguisher needs a fix, it still doesn't do anything. I think changing it back to its original form would be a good idea but without the ammo reduction nonsense. A health reduction would be better if you really think its that powerful.

The stock flamethrower needs its extra damage bonus from medics removed. It's good enough as is and is already the most reliable flamethrower in vsp.

The phlog needs to regen health on its taunt, its supposed to be a high risk high reward weapon but you can't really do anything with it because as soon as you flare jump to hale you won't have any hp to flare jump out when the situation gets bad.

*Backburner is really good as it turns out but it needs its extra ammo consumption removed and then the weapon would be fixed.

Degreaser needs its damage reduction removed, but thats it. The extra airblast nerf with tough break I feel balanced the damage potential with the weapon since you need to stop using flames to not chew ammo.

Scorch shot could use with its damage reduction removed. 

*The fragment should have an ammo reduction. The benefit of the fragment is you don't have to fight hale for more than half a second with it unlike the axtinguisher which is more towards getting in hales face.

And thats it. Everything else isn't really worth fixing because its either balanced already or is just not worth the effort. Nothing I posted would make any big waves (at least I don't think they are that out of the box) but all these suggestions would simply bring all the weapons to an equal place when compared to the pyros other weapons. I really do think thats everything that pyro needs balance wise and would love to see people tell me what you think. I also don't have an idea to fix spells because while they are obviously broken I don't use them enough to make suggestions. Sorry for the bad grammar and spelling. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2016 by WHYYYY.EXE
Added more text and changed a few things.

[Simple 225]

An update is coming out, 

EDIT:

Reserve shooter will no longer set things on fire. It's damage will also be slightly reduced.

Axtinguisher's ammo reduction will be lessened.

Scorch shot will do more damage.

Volcano fragment will have an ammo reduction stat.

Market gardener will not reduce ammo anymore

Vaccinator will have increased movement speed (5%)

[Aurotzel 467]

4 hours ago, Simple said:

-snip-

Is the Reserve Shooter still going to full crit on targets that are on fire? This is definitely a step if the right direction, but why are you not fixing it? It can be FIXED. The minicrit on airborne targets stat needs to be re-added. I've posted this here at least 3 or 4 times, and I seem to get completely ignored every time.

Axtinguisher does need a buff, but why this change? You completely disregarded the actual problem with the weapon, and decided to give it a different buff that doesn't even fix it. This is a worthless change, the weapon will still be mostly useless. You need to remove the weapon change penalty to fix it, and fix all the damage changes, i don't know the stats off-hand exactly, but this doesn't really feel like it's fixing anything.

Scorch is fine.

Volcano is good.

Did you NERF the Market Gardener? You realize everyone here said it was UNDERPOWERED, right? It's complete trash how it stands, people wanted BUFFS. I don't really get how you got that it was overpowered from here.

Vacc needed a buff too, but a speed buff? It needs to be fixed beforehand, the weapon does not function right in general, it needs to be recoded entirely. Just giving it a slight buff to a random stat isn't really going to "fix" the weapon. The change will probably either not be enough to make it useful, or it will end up making the med scout speed to where it's just overpowered.

Trying my best to not come off extremely rude in this post, but i cannot understand why these changes are how they are, and I'm getting pretty close to being completely done with trying to suggest any changes. Seems like you just glance over peoples ideas and change how you think it will end up balancing it, but it ends up not really helping the weapons. Changes either don't matter, or they make it overpowered. 

Hopefully the stuff is getting changed so ignore this post.

[Zeke Aileron™ 52]

Okay this was a huge discussion for a specific mercenary weapons arsenal that happened between myself and Auro(Col), with a little bit of help from Gimpy, So behold Our collaboration for the Soldier class weapon balance.

Before i start the list for the Soldier, Most Rocket Launchers on the list should have a very specific trait back on them exactly how Stock VSH does for them to be on Par with Stock so Soldier players can rely on other Launchers rather than just Stock.

I will also list the corresponding item attribute for each one, and the colors for the buffs and or nerfs for each said weapon.

Also this is a TL:DR kind of post within the document, so sorry in advance.

The Document for the Soldier Weapons

[Unarmedglucose 0]

On 06/05/2016 at 1:40 AM, Surprise Pie said:

In VSP, Backstabs are coded to deal roughly 9% of the Hale's maximum health(which itself is roughly 500 + 1000x the number of players on RED) , whereas in vanilla TF2, backstabs are coded to deal 6 times the victim's current health. Either way, every knife uses identical damage calculation and it would be insanely difficult and time consuming (if even possible) to come up with a new damage calculation for just one knife, especially if you expect this calculation to be balanced.

 

From my understanding, VSP is an extremely modified fork of an older FF2 version, correct? Even if it wasn't, it would be trivial to add a check in OnTakeDamage (or wherever the backstab check might be for VSP) for the spycicle and simply apply an alternate damage formula. In fact, you could just rehash the existing formula and give it a bonus at the end of the calculation.

Not that I'm saying the original suggestion is a good idea, just that such an idea is in fact possible to execute, and would not be "insanely difficult".

[Juan Tienda 16]

I come today suggesting a minor change to the Quick-Fix. Since the quick-fix uber is completely obsolete for the medic, it would be nice if just equipping the medigun would give the medic 10-20% faster moving speed. It would also be nice if that speed would apply regardless of whatever the medic is holding (Blutsauger, Ubersaw, ect) for quick jabs with the ubersaw to build an uber that is only somewhat useful for the heal targets. The speed is still not enough to outrun hales so it would make the medic survive a little longer, sacrificing the immunity uber.

[Aurotzel 467]

2 hours ago, Juan Tienda said:

I come today suggesting a minor change to the Quick-Fix. Since the quick-fix uber is completely obsolete for the medic, it would be nice if just equipping the medigun would give the medic 10-20% faster moving speed. It would also be nice if that speed would apply regardless of whatever the medic is holding (Blutsauger, Ubersaw, ect) for quick jabs with the ubersaw to build an uber that is only somewhat useful for the heal targets. The speed is still not enough to outrun hales so it would make the medic survive a little longer, sacrificing the immunity uber.

If I'm not wrong, it already has a 5 or 10% bonus on it. I wouldn't say over 15, because 20 might end up being a bit much so the Med is impossible to catch. Not to mention if you do keep it passive, Overdose medics will end up being faster than scouts with that out, so that's not the best idea. Should probably have to stay active purely because of the new Overdose, and i wouldn't go over 15%, 15 is stretching it on its own.

Though I do think the Uber speed needs to be buffed up to at least 25% again. Its a -25% right now due to a lack of understanding on my last suggestion for it, which currently makes it even more useless.

[Juan Tienda 16]

On 7/14/2016 at 6:41 PM, Aurotzel said:

If I'm not wrong, it already has a 5 or 10% bonus on it. I wouldn't say over 15, because 20 might end up being a bit much so the Med is impossible to catch. Not to mention if you do keep it passive, Overdose medics will end up being faster than scouts with that out, so that's not the best idea. Should probably have to stay active purely because of the new Overdose, and i wouldn't go over 15%, 15 is stretching it on its own.

Though I do think the Uber speed needs to be buffed up to at least 25% again. Its a -25% right now due to a lack of understanding on my last suggestion for it, which currently makes it even more useless.

I understand, but I would like the Quick-Fix uber to benefit the medic even a little bit, such as a disciplinary action speed boost for the entire uber or having the 250% overheal apply to himself as well. I love using it (cause its a Collector's Pro KS) but I wish it was even just a tiny bit more useful. Also, any words on buffs for the Vaccinator? I've stopped using it since the uber build is slow and the uber charges are not worth the time it takes to build them.

[Aurotzel 467]

4 hours ago, Juan Tienda said:

I understand, but I would like the Quick-Fix uber to benefit the medic even a little bit, such as a disciplinary action speed boost for the entire uber or having the 250% overheal apply to himself as well. I love using it (cause its a Collector's Pro KS) but I wish it was even just a tiny bit more useful. Also, any words on buffs for the Vaccinator? I've stopped using it since the uber build is slow and the uber charges are not worth the time it takes to build them.

Yeah I can see why it does need a slight buff for the Med himself during the uber, doesn't even self overheal for some reason. Speed during Uber would probably be alright, just passive might be a bit much.

Agreed on the Vacc. Issue with the Vacc is that it rewards you for your team getting damaged with how the Uber build works, but since your team doesn't get hurt often, it only really pairs well with a pocket Solly damaging himself, or a KGB that gets hit a lot, which is just really dumb. Will post my idea for it here again.

Rough idea of the current stats that matter, don't know off the top of my head exactly:

+67% UberCharge build rate

-66% Overheal build rate

-33% UberCharge Rate on Overhealed Patients.

 

My suggestion for it:

+50% UberCharge build rate

Remove the other 2 stats entirely

 

The issue with the current Vaccinator is that it discourages overhealing your targets entirely, and rewards you for your team being lower on health. Normal Uber also does this, but not to the same extent. The idea with this is to make the Uber rate a lot more consistant, but not too fast, while also not giving massive nerfs to overheal. Plus I'll add here for like the 5th time I've said on the forums, fix the actual Uber from not being extremely buggy and not working on time half the time. If you have no clue what I'm talking about, actually use the weapon for 5 minutes to see how broken it is.

 

 

[Tuil5 16]

14 hours ago, Aurotzel said:

Plus I'll add here for like the 5th time I've said on the forums, fix the actual Uber from not being extremely buggy and not working on time half the time. If you have no clue what I'm talking about, actually use the weapon for 5 minutes to see how broken it is.

Yes Please fix the issue with medi-gun.Its Soo annoying when you getting killed cause of that bug -.-