Rainy

[Versus Ponyville] Weapon Suggestions

821 posts in this topic

Hitman's Heatmaker

TF2 Attributes:

-70% Damage on Bodyshot

Custom Attributes

No longer builds Focus

On-hit: 3 Seconds of Focus

On-Headshot: 8 Seconds of Focus

-80% Knockback

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One rageable targets

Speed Demos > Scouts > Engi Nests > Medic's with a charge

 

You need to stop thinking of one rage, pinkie pie's rage does't help one bit against speed demo's......

Speed demo's hardly add anything to vsp either they just stall gameplay running around charging the momment you try to catch up to them using super jump..........

their charge cooldown is nothing, it has no penalty for using it.

 

 

It's not that hard to take down a 'speedy demo' and the little 'scoots' that scoot around. All you have to do is outsmart them.

 

 

Maybe not for you but for some one like me with lag its imposible..........

And i am not talking about the avg speed demo no i mean the speed demo that purely plays to grief and run over the map without caring about damage.

 

Hitman's Heatmaker

TF2 Attributes:

-70% Damage on Bodyshot

Custom Attributes

No longer builds Focus

On-hit: 3 Seconds of Focus

On-Headshot: 8 Seconds of Focus

-80% Knockback

 

 

Need proper hitboxes on hales first else this is just straight downgrade, current heatmaker is fine already tbh.

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Degreaser...an idea (actually somewhat taken from another server):

 

+100% faster weapon switch

 

What this does is allow crit-switching. Someone could go, for example, Degreaser + Shotgun + Powerjack (with +10% movement speed) and be a speed pyro with switch-crits on the shotgun. This works by switching to Powerjack and if the crits are lit up, immediately switch to shotgun and fire to get crits on that shot.

 

Would certainly make the class more interesting than just Backburner 24/7.

Edited by sarysa

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Since we are on the topic of Demoknights. I think the Eyelander needs some love. Compared to the Skullcutter or HHH. It's kind of underpowered.

 

The Eyelander does the same as the HHH per hit (195) but could use a 25% boost to take it up around 250. Also the Head requirement for sheild should only be 7.

 

The Persuader needs an increase in heads for shield as their speed is ludicrous. Head requirement should be 10 and damage should be a 120 per hit. (15% increase)

 

The skullcutter is great for damage but by Celestia it takes too long to get a sheild back. 8 sounds good.

 

Also I think the Claidheamh Mor needs the head taking ability but Sheild regen should be 10 heads as it has the fire on hit effect.

Edited by Brony Down Under™

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Btw nerf spy backstabs plz, nothing justify's their overpowerness they do like 75% of the damage when got spy's like strew

10 backstabs to take down hale is way to low needs to be more like 20 backstabs especialy considering their now 4 spy slots.

Usualy seeing spy's on top damage while rest have like only 2k dmg thats way to OP.

 

Since we are on the topic of Demoknights. I think the Eyelander needs some love. Compared to the Skullcutter or HHH. It's kind of underpowered.

 

The Eyelander does the same as the HHH per hit (195) but could use a 25% boost to take it up around 250. Also the Head requirement for sheild should only be 7.

 

The Persuader needs an increase in heads for shield as their speed is ludicrous. Head requirement should be 10 and damage should be a 120 per hit. (15% increase)

 

The skullcutter is great for damage but by Celestia it takes too long to get a sheild back. 8 sounds good.

 

Also I think the Claidheamh Mor needs the head taking ability but Sheild regen should be 10 heads as it has the fire on hit effect.

 

 

I think your missing the point here.

Each head gives a speed boost the speed with 10 heads would be even more overpowered.

Skullcutter has a very big melee range i believe, not sure if the HHH has the same melee range.

Edited by Arokhantos™

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Btw nerf spy backstabs plz, nothing justify's their overpowerness they do like 75% of the damage when got spy's like strew

10 backstabs to take down hale is way to low needs to be more like 20 backstabs especialy considering their now 4 spy slots.

Usualy seeing spy's on top damage while rest have like only 2k dmg thats way to OP.

I used to disagree with what people say about you regarding losing to something then immediately screaming about it (even if its not as a boss but in damage), but this would just be that.

Spies are exclusively to deal mass amounts of damage at the greatest risk of doing it unprotected (unless ubered), what I mean by this is compared to Demoknights/KGB heavies who also have to get directly up to the boss, they have some sort of protection whilst attacking (resistances and shields) while the spy cannot cloak/pop dead ringer while going in for the kill, making them very easy to kill if the boss either rages/turns around quick enough. Its a class based entirely around stealth and not being seen, some people are very good at this while some bosses aren't very perceptive and even then great boss players can still get backstabbed when horded by Demoknights/Heavies or just even drop/corner/stairstabbed just simply by not being careful enough thus why spies typically are one of the first 3 classes to be killed or should be targetted (other two being Engineers and Medics). Countering spies is just all about being paranoid about classes that rush you who aren't demomen/heavies, keeping an eye on ledges, and always ready to rage when you get backstabbed, its a cheap but effective means of getting rid of them. And when you think about it, good spies really balance out VSH/VSP since you can't expect every player to pull their 3k+ damage before they die besides KGB Heavies and Sniper (occasionally demoknights), a class that can even when its 2v1 change the game in their favor is balance but its all just a matter of keeping them alive or if you're the boss, killing them early on.

On the other hand, I do support having the damage depend on how many spies are alive, being 25% less when all 3/4 are alive, slowing reaching up to no penalty when there are 2/1 left, this would just be so the boss wouldn't be killed so easily early on when the chance of getting backstabbed is higher then later on when certain classes/players are weeded out.

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Btw nerf spy backstabs plz, nothing justify's their overpowerness they do like 75% of the damage when got spy's like strew

10 backstabs to take down hale is way to low needs to be more like 20 backstabs especialy considering their now 4 spy slots.

Usualy seeing spy's on top damage while rest have like only 2k dmg thats way to OP.

I used to disagree with what people say about you regarding losing to something then immediately screaming about it (even if its not as a boss but in damage), but this would just be that.

Spies are exclusively to deal mass amounts of damage at the greatest risk of doing it unprotected (unless ubered), what I mean by this is compared to Demoknights/KGB heavies who also have to get directly up to the boss, they have some sort of protection whilst attacking (resistances and shields) while the spy cannot cloak/pop dead ringer while going in for the kill, making them very easy to kill if the boss either rages/turns around quick enough. Its a class based entirely around stealth and not being seen, some people are very good at this while some bosses aren't very perceptive and even then great boss players can still get backstabbed when horded by Demoknights/Heavies or just even drop/corner/stairstabbed just simply by not being careful enough thus why spies typically are one of the first 3 classes to be killed or should be targetted (other two being Engineers and Medics). Countering spies is just all about being paranoid about classes that rush you who aren't demomen/heavies, keeping an eye on ledges, and always ready to rage when you get backstabbed, its a cheap but effective means of getting rid of them. And when you think about it, good spies really balance out VSH/VSP since you can't expect every player to pull their 3k+ damage before they die besides KGB Heavies and Sniper (occasionally demoknights), a class that can even when its 2v1 change the game in their favor is balance but its all just a matter of keeping them alive or if you're the boss, killing them early on.

On the other hand, I do support having the damage depend on how many spies are alive, being 25% less when all 3/4 are alive, slowing reaching up to no penalty when there are 2/1 left, this would just be so the boss wouldn't be killed so easily early on when the chance of getting backstabbed is higher then later on when certain classes/players are weeded out.

 

 

To much wall of text can barely read -_-

Anyway spies are OP they do top damage all the time when their spies like strew are around, 10 backstabs is way to cheesy..........

Talking about spies doing nearly doing 11k damage nearly every round.

Also spy's dont have it hard at all their is sooooooooo much melee these day's spy's can easy hide in a group of kgb heavy's and demoknights.

Edited by Arokhantos™

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So you didn't even read it and just repeated what you said before? I give up.

 

 

Half way i stop following what you trying to say..........

And if complained for long time now about speed demo's spy's even sentry knockback nothing has been done so far about it.

Edited by Arokhantos™

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Simply put: Spies compensate for people who die early due to ambushing or cannot do the damage as easily (Medic, Scout, Pyro, Soldier. Not that soldier can't do lots of damage, it just takes a long time and typically they die before reaching that point). I see that spies doing a lot of damage early on when theres plenty of spies left alive is a tiny bit of a problem but later in game when theres less players, its more viable/necessary to turn the tide.

Edited by TheGreatJug™

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THANK YOU JUG. Some one gets it. Playing spy is all about risk and reward. You take the risk of getting killed and you get your backstab reward. As far as my math goes. Each player needs to do around 1200-1500 damage to fufill there part but classes that get killed early on or one raged before doing much can't do that. Which is where Spies balance it out. To win as hale you (As jug said) need to be paranoid about spies IF there are any on, Especially good ones like Strew, Fluffy or some others. Super jump around to avoid getting rushed by Demo's and KGB heavies. Getting Stabbed gives you instant rage therefore the spy needs to act fast to get away, you just need to act faster. It's not a walk in the park to win as the hale. It requires work on your part.

 

Besides, you're only complaining about spies because you LOST ONCE to backstabs. Quit being so one sided and actually think before you post. (Take also into account your complaint about sentry knockback or Speed Demo's

 

I think your missing the point here.

Each head gives a speed boost the speed with 10 heads would be even more overpowered.

Skullcutter has a very big melee range i believe, not sure if the HHH has the same melee range

 

They all have a 37% increase in range. Flat. The head capacity MAX's out at 4. Therefore with a larger head requirement they need more work to get a shield back. HHH just has a faster swing speed then the Cutter. Actually play Demoknight or do some research before you call me out on something.

Edited by Brony Down Under™

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Arok, I feel your pain re: spies. They're far worse when they're ubered because that's when the good ones (like Strew) can get questionable stabs off against you with no risk. (like facestabs) Good spies will somehow manage to get you even if you're monitoring them, be it you're surrounded or you get an unfortunate knockback with a very twitch-a-twitchy spy. I've had a couple get me during a freaking goomba stomp. Worth keeping in mind when adjusting your playstyle as hale.

 

Do they deserve a nerf? Not really. Most bosses can jump away from a bad spy situation and force them to scatter. One of our tele bosses can just spam high-jump all the time, one gets a brief stun, two get an uber, and one is...well screwed cause it's Discord. ;P Pretty much gotta keep your distance, keep aware, and pick them out one by one if you're him. Using your valve time pseudo-rage well also helps.

 

That said, I do think that if any means of evading a spy rush are nerfed (looking at you Gimpy and Ivo :P ) then spies will need to be nerfed as well. Can't let it be too easy for them.

 

And for the record, spies do 1/8 damage. 36768 (max HP on a full server) / 42XX roughly equals 8.

Edited by sarysa

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I'd like to see a little variety in spy knives. I think "slight" nerfs to damage would be in order, but this is an idea I had about spy knives a while back. Attributes ( x ) from: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/List_of_item_attributes

 

- Conniver's Kunai -

 

Defaults

On Backstab: Absorbs the health from your victim.

-65 max health on wearer.

 

Proposed additions

(275) cancel falling damage

(182) slow enemy on hit | 40% for 3 seconds

Deal 10% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Big Earner -

 

Defaults

+30 cloak on kill

-25 max health on wearer

 

Proposed additions

(107) Move speed increased | 10%

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Spy-cicle -

 

Defaults

Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds

 

Proposed additions

(175) jarate duration | 3 seconds

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Your Eternal Reward - (Wanga Prick)

 

Defaults

Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
Wearer cannot disguise

 

Proposed additions

(149) bleeding duration | 5 seconds

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Knife -

 

Defaults

N/A

 

Proposed additions

(76) maxammo primary increased | +100%

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Sharp Dresser - (Black Rose)

 

Defaults

N/A

 

Proposed additions

(13) overheal decay bonus | +75%

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

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re: Kunai suggestion

 

Do you mean 40% slower for 3 seconds or 40% chance of slow on hit for 3 seconds? I think it should be 100% chance but only on backstab, if that's possible. It gives the skilled paper spy (who can't even cloak or dead ring to survive a screwup) a better chance to escape on success. But a failing spy remains vulnerable.

 

If you do it the other way, it becomes less of a skill weapon and more of an easymode "butterknife in a fracas" weapon where you hope to get backstabs on a slowed hale while hoovies and demoknights support you.

Edited by sarysa

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re: Kunai suggestion

 

Do you mean 40% slower for 3 seconds or 40% chance of slow on hit for 3 seconds? I think it should be 100% chance but only on backstab, if that's possible. It gives the skilled paper spy (who can't even cloak or dead ring to survive a screwup) a better chance to escape on success. But a failing spy remains vulnerable.

 

If you do it the other way, it becomes less of a skill weapon and more of an easymode "butterknife in a fracas" weapon where you hope to get backstabs on a slowed hale while hoovies and demoknights support you.

I believe Skeith said falling rather than failing.

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Big Earner

(Also can be applied to Sharp Dresser instead)

Custom Attribute-based Weapon

Compounding effects of removing weapons from loadout for bonuses, eventually giving up cloak watch/revolver/disguise kit to be more mobile (and be defenseless)

Cannot be healed by Medics/Dispensers

First Backstab Damage: 7% Boss Health.

On-Backstab: Remove specified weapon from loadout in exchange for +5% movement speed, +25 maximum health, and increased backstab damage.

 

Backstab Count | Removed Weapon | Bonus Movement Speed (Total) | Bonus Maximum Health (Total) | Backstab Damage:

  1. Sapper | +5% Movement Speed (105%) | +25 Health (135) | 8% Boss Health Backstab Damage
  2. Revovler | +10% Movement Speed (110%) | +25 Health (160) | 9% Boss Health Backstab Damage
  3. Cloak Watch | +15% Movement Speed (115%) | +25 Health (185) | 10% Boss Health Backstab Damage
  4. Disguise Kit  | +20% Movement Speed (120%) | +25 Health (210) | 12% Boss Health Backstab Damage

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re: Kunai suggestion

 

Do you mean 40% slower for 3 seconds or 40% chance of slow on hit for 3 seconds? I think it should be 100% chance but only on backstab, if that's possible. It gives the skilled paper spy (who can't even cloak or dead ring to survive a screwup) a better chance to escape on success. But a failing spy remains vulnerable.

 

If you do it the other way, it becomes less of a skill weapon and more of an easymode "butterknife in a fracas" weapon where you hope to get backstabs on a slowed hale while hoovies and demoknights support you.

I believe Skeith said falling rather than failing.

 

He did, but when I said failing I meant failing. :P

 

I don't like the idea of the Kunai being reworked to make failing (aka crappy) spies more easily able to get a backstab. It should be a skill weapon which benefits a skillful spy (and particularly the dropstab strategy, since it negates fall damage), with the one tradeoff being you'll die in one hit (in spite of your preferred cloak) unless you're overhealed.

 

With Skeith's clarification I'm vehemently against spies being able to slow down hale without landing a backstab. It's too easy for a crappy spy to butterknife their way to a backstab by slowing the hale. Furthermore it'd be too easy for an ubered Kunai spy to land questionable trick stabs on the slowed hale. Expect blatant facestabs to be more common, and there's nothing more frustrating than seeing "You were backstabbed" when you were looking at the spy who "backstabbed" you for several seconds!

It'd really be best if the slow were only applied on backstab.

Edited by sarysa

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Just a quick suggestion to nerf one of my creations and help with demo and heavy spell spam.

Give eyelander, Persian persuader and KGB honorbound.

Honorbound makes so you can't use spells (since it counts as swapping a weapon). It won't completely eliminate the spell spam, but it will slow it down.

 

Also, I'm not sure how it would work, but make the apocofists like the scottish skullcutter, where it's a decent melee to pack for heavy, without giving up the primary. Not sure what to give it though. Maybe you can make it turn him into saxton hale. xD, but I kid. Just, give heavy some other close ranged options.

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I'd like to see a little variety in spy knives. I think "slight" nerfs to damage would be in order, but this is an idea I had about spy knives a while back. Attributes ( x ) from: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/List_of_item_attributes

 

- Conniver's Kunai -

 

Defaults

On Backstab: Absorbs the health from your victim.

-65 max health on wearer.

 

Proposed additions

(275) cancel falling damage

(182) slow enemy on hit | 40% for 3 seconds

Deal 10% max health damage to the boss.

 

- Spy-cicle -

 

Defaults

Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds

 

Proposed additions

(175) jarate duration | 3 seconds

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

Jarate on an Ice knife? I think that trait and the slow trait should be swapped.

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Just a quick suggestion to nerf one of my creations and help with demo and heavy spell spam.

Give eyelander, Persian persuader and KGB honorbound.

Honorbound makes so you can't use spells (since it counts as swapping a weapon). It won't completely eliminate the spell spam, but it will slow it down.

I'm opposed to this due to quota, and the fact that melee classes often get screwed over by circumstance. Random crits and knockback goombas before making quota are two reasons I'm reluctant to go full melee. I'd be neutral about it if not for the quota system.

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Just a quick suggestion to nerf one of my creations and help with demo and heavy spell spam.

Give eyelander, Persian persuader and KGB honorbound.

Honorbound makes so you can't use spells (since it counts as swapping a weapon). It won't completely eliminate the spell spam, but it will slow it down.

I'm opposed to this due to quota, and the fact that melee classes often get screwed over by circumstance. Random crits and knockback goombas before making quota are two reasons I'm reluctant to go full melee. I'd be neutral about it if not for the quota system.

 

Or you can not be so obsessed with playing as the hale. It's not the most fantastic thing ever. The system is there for a reason, granted it does need some work but it pushes you to do better. Granted going full melee is a risk but does it pay off? Fuck yeah it does. VirginiaGarcia can get screwed over one round and get 10K as a KGB hoovy the next.

 

​Playing as the hale is a privilege or a reward, not a right.

Edited by Brony Down Under™

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Just a quick suggestion to nerf one of my creations and help with demo and heavy spell spam.

Give eyelander, Persian persuader and KGB honorbound.

Honorbound makes so you can't use spells (since it counts as swapping a weapon). It won't completely eliminate the spell spam, but it will slow it down.

I'm opposed to this due to quota, and the fact that melee classes often get screwed over by circumstance. Random crits and knockback goombas before making quota are two reasons I'm reluctant to go full melee. I'd be neutral about it if not for the quota system.

 

Or you can not be so obsessed with playing as the hale. It's not the most fantastic thing ever. The system is there for a reason, granted it does need some work but it pushes you to do better. Granted going full melee is a risk but does it pay off? Fuck yeah it does. VirginiaGarcia can get screwed over one round and get 10K as a KGB hoovy the next.

 

​Playing as the hale is a privilege or a reward, not a right.

Meh, it's easy to stay alive the majority of the time. It's just not as fun. But I like being hale. I just do. :P

 

But I don't want to go back into that discussion, and idk if this forum has rules about posting twice in a row, so I'm going to post:

 

sarysa's ideas for increased Heavy diversity!

 

Ok, that sounds dumb, but we really only have two good heavy options at the moment: KGB, and Brass Beast. (andmaybenatashabutit'skindameh/trickytoworkwith) After a couple rounds people tend to give up most other miniguns. So here's some spec ideas that'd cater to different playstyles. First will be the specs, and then the explanations.

 

Proposed Weapon Stats

 

Minigun

+105%* faster movement speed while deployed (* value may need adjustment)

 

The intention of this is to negate the movement penalty while the minigun is spinning. This does not mean the heavy should move faster than 230HU/sec. They should move at 230HU/sec at all times, spun up or not. I just stuck an estimated value in there based on info from the tf2 wiki but it would probably need some experimentation to get that value correct.

 

Tomislav

+60% faster spin-up time (increased)

+35%* faster movement speed while deployed (* should be roughly 1/3 of the Minigun's bonus)

Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound

Remove the firing speed penalty.

 

Huo-Long Heater

+45% faster spin-up time

Sustains a ring of fire while deployed

6 ammo consumed per second while deployed

+100% afterburn duration

 

Fists

Increased knockback on the target

+ ammo as it is should probably be fine

 

Killer Gloves of Boxing

Keep it as it is

 

Gloves of Running Urgently

Change to standard hale rules. (not marked for death, -7 hp per second)

 

Synopsis

 

These together would allow some new heavy playstyles. The stock minigun simply makes you a more mobile heavy, better able to keep up with a fleeing hale. There is no decrease on spinup/spindown time, though, so you're just as vulnerable when the hale stun rages you. The huo-long heater with its massive ammo consumption already supports more of a camping playstyle, and by increasing spin-up speed, you can more quickly spin-down and switch to your fists when you need to knock the hale away or get feared. The afterburn bonus is simply to make this dispenser-demanding weapon more useful. The Tomislav is the best option for a heavy who wants to be able to switch to melee as quickly as possible. It allows you to be more mobile (not as mobile as stock Minigun) but also gives you the best chance of fists-defense in a sticky situation. The GRU change is simply to give people without festive GRU another melee option as a minigun heavy. KGB is an achievement item anyway, there's no reason people shouldn't have it. Finally, the change to the fists is to allow a minigun heavy to stand their ground and knock the hale away from them, even if both people are standing on solid ground. As it is a minigun heavy who is closed in on is as good as dead, more or less.

 

Wondering what peoples' thoughts are?

Edited by sarysa
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- Big Earner -

 

Defaults

+30 cloak on kill

-25 max health on wearer

 

Proposed additions

(107) Move speed increased | 10%

Deal 7% max health damage to the boss.

 

Having a minor speed boost can make the spy a little OP, perhaps we could maybe give it a slight beneficial attribute like maybe:

 

178 (+) 30% faster weapon switch?

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