Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
sarysa

Button Mash cease & desist

22 posts in this topic

I know there's a bunch of creative types who hang out here, so what do people think about the Button Mash takedown? In case you haven't heard of it:

 

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2014/03/jan-animations-button-mash-picture.html

 

There seems to be a lot of concern in the fandom about this, with people bringing up the C&D against Fighting is Magic...though in that case the FiM team was planning on selling their creation. I remember about two months ago when I binged on fan-made content, one or two of the things I came across had merchandise for or the intention to merchandize their creation...and I knew that wouldn't end well. Did JanAnimations go down that road?

 

It also kind of seems like if you listen to the Vocaroo explanation:

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0IUXMulZbO1

 

The way they talk about intellectual property goes outside the realm of what you'd expect the creators of, for example, flufflepuff would say...

 

Perhaps the fandom content creators just need to make it clear in their video that they're doing it for fun.

Edited by sarysa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe I may have read somewhere that Jan Animations was planning on creating a Button Mash series and monetizing it.  Even though Button Mash, Button's Mom, and all the other related OCs are not owned by Hasbro (because they're OCs, derp), MLP: FiM is.  While I don't agree with Hasbro taking down ALL of their work (Including Picture Perfect Pony), they were well within their right to.  At the end of the day, Jan Animations' youtube account still exists and I'm hoping for more (legal) content down the road.

Edited by Hazard Time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much what I figured. I wouldn't be surprised if they had been sticking their own ads on the videos...that'd be enough to provoke the C&D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read on the LoE forums one person's assertions that "Hasbro is probably kicking their legal team's collective asses" over this. But they also pointed out that "Don't Mine at Night" was down for awhile and then brought back up. So now I'm thinking their takedown folks just made a mistake:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sad/disturbing thing is that it could equally happen to any of the numerous fan things, including this very community.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People aren't aware that this isn't the main reason?

This was mainly a reason for JansAnimation was upset at the fandom for the amount of pony porn going on about the show/episodes.

 

Anyways, Jan was actually upset about the amount of clop that was going around in the community of Button Mash's mom, let alone even some nsfw of Button Mash. He became so sick of it that once he did receive this notification, he used it right away as an excuse to escape the clop-festive parade and to just cancel the project since people ruined it basically for him. You know, because hey, let's admit it. If someone said, "Hasbro did it!", no one can complain, because it's actually often true. Although, Hasbro wasn't the main reason. The reason why he didn't want to admit this is because he didn't want to seem like a whiny jerk, which is understandable. The clop fandom is known to shame people who dare to deny their ocs/characters to be sexualized.

 

Enough of that rant, but yeah.

 

TL;DR : Jan got mad at the clop community of the brony community for making porn of Button Mash's Adventures. The end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People aren't aware that this isn't the main reason?

This was mainly a reason for JansAnimation was upset at the fandom for the amount of pony porn going on about the show/episodes.

 

Anyways, Jan was actually upset about the amount of clop that was going around in the community of Button Mash's mom, let alone even some nsfw of Button Mash. He became so sick of it that once he did receive this notification, he used it right away as an excuse to escape the clop-festive parade and to just cancel the project since people ruined it basically for him. You know, because hey, let's admit it. If someone said, "Hasbro did it!", no one can complain, because it's actually often true. Although, Hasbro wasn't the main reason. The reason why he didn't want to admit this is because he didn't want to seem like a whiny jerk, which is understandable. The clop fandom is known to shame people who dare to deny their ocs/characters to be sexualized.

 

Enough of that rant, but yeah.

 

TL;DR : Jan got mad at the clop community of the brony community for making porn of Button Mash's Adventures. The end.

 

First of all, I would like to know where you got this information.

 

Second, I wouldn't consider disgust with the fandom as a reason to kill Button Mash Adventures.  As someone who's been on the internet for several years, I've come to accept that the denizens of 4Chan hold nothing sacred and will make porn of anything if it is amusing to their sick sense of humor.  I don't clop and I find clop just as disgusting as most everyone else on the internet, but that is no excuse to ruin everyone's fun because of the actions of a minority.  Look at the developer of the indie game, Fez, who killed the development of Fez 2 in order to spite the trolls who were constantly harassing him.  The thing with trolls is that they don't care if you decide quit.  The only people hurt by both of these situations are those who wanted to see/play a finished product.  If what you said is true, then Jan Animations will lose all respect from me for spiting the entire community over the actions of a sick, yet vocal, minority.

 

In other words, the internet is a dirty place, and as an artist if you can't handle having shit thrown at you or your creations, then you're better off in some other line of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

People aren't aware that this isn't the main reason?

This was mainly a reason for JansAnimation was upset at the fandom for the amount of pony porn going on about the show/episodes.

 

Anyways, Jan was actually upset about the amount of clop that was going around in the community of Button Mash's mom, let alone even some nsfw of Button Mash. He became so sick of it that once he did receive this notification, he used it right away as an excuse to escape the clop-festive parade and to just cancel the project since people ruined it basically for him. You know, because hey, let's admit it. If someone said, "Hasbro did it!", no one can complain, because it's actually often true. Although, Hasbro wasn't the main reason. The reason why he didn't want to admit this is because he didn't want to seem like a whiny jerk, which is understandable. The clop fandom is known to shame people who dare to deny their ocs/characters to be sexualized.

 

Enough of that rant, but yeah.

 

TL;DR : Jan got mad at the clop community of the brony community for making porn of Button Mash's Adventures. The end.

 

First of all, I would like to know where you got this information.

 

Second, I wouldn't consider disgust with the fandom as a reason to kill Button Mash Adventures.  As someone who's been on the internet for several years, I've come to accept that the denizens of 4Chan hold nothing sacred and will make porn of anything if it is amusing to their sick sense of humor.  I don't clop and I find clop just as disgusting as most everyone else on the internet, but that is no excuse to ruin everyone's fun because of the actions of a minority.  Look at the developer of the indie game, Fez, who killed the development of Fez 2 in order to spite the trolls who were constantly harassing him.  The thing with trolls is that they don't care if you decide quit.  The only people hurt by both of these situations are those who wanted to see/play a finished product.  If what you said is true, then Jan Animations will lose all respect from me for spiting the entire community over the actions of a sick, yet vocal, minority.

 

In other words, the internet is a dirty place, and as an artist if you can't handle having shit thrown at you or your creations, then you're better off in some other line of work.

 

 

I have many friends who have strong friendship with Jan, and I assure you the resources are correct. (I'd rather not say their names, though. Don't want people to fondle them; they know many more people). Almost ALL of Jan's friends said the same thing-- because of the community and how they turned the cute little series into incest pony porn.

(Personally I don't mind cloppers, just as long as you don't do stuff like that.)

 

Also I agree, the internet is a dirty place, and Jan is aware of that but didn't exactly expect this sort of reaction... which he should of, considering how the community and the internet in general can get. Also that last sentence you said is basically the sort of reaction that Jan didn't want-- the feeling that he should expect this sort of thing to happen and for him to "just deal with it". Err, I do agree he should of expected this reaction, but the part of him just dealing with it is what I'm on his side about. Complicated to say you're just going to deal with the porn of a cute animation series made for fun and for the MLP:FiM community; actually insulting in my opinion. Of course like as I mentioned before, he didn't want to tell the truth because he didn't want to be viewed as whiny and such, just in case if you're wondering why he didn't tell.

 

Anyways, that about sums it up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't say I respect his decision.  If he didn't like the way his characters were being portrayed, then he should have continued with the series (assuming Hasbro would have allowed him) and portrayed them the way they were meant to be portrayed.  It wouldn't stop the porn, but at least the characters would receive respect from actually having developed personalities.  I was also a little curious as to where Button's dad was involved in all of this as well as other aspects of Button's Mom's character; I'm of the opinion that if Button's Mom simply received some character development, less people would imagine her as some sort of minx.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't say I respect his decision.  If he didn't like the way his characters were being portrayed, then he should have continued with the series (assuming Hasbro would have allowed him) and portrayed them the way they were meant to be portrayed.  It wouldn't stop the porn, but at least the characters would receive respect from actually having developed personalities.  I was also a little curious as to where Button's dad was involved in all of this as well as other aspects of Button's Mom's character; I'm of the opinion that if Button's Mom simply received some character development, less people would imagine her as some sort of minx.

This I definitely agree, only if Jan had the same sort of mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I can say is that it is very unfortunate.  Jan knew he would probably have to face this later down the line but he still went for it anyway, so I give him props for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean that if someone makes a character based on a well know show on the internet its going to get porn based on it? Stop the presses.

 

Then again, I too would get upset that someone would use waste there artistic talent destroying something I made like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It probably didn't help that the VA did that infamous aristocrats-style 4chan interview, heh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Lol, I was going to ask where they got some of the quotes used in this video.

Okay that was funny as heck...Now i wanna know where those lines came from..Regardless that was a well done video.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it me or do the creators of FlufflePuff have a profit sharing arrangement going? I've noticed that they market their stuff and "more from HasbroStudioShorts" is linked to their videos. Pretty cool...probably a simple 50/50 like Red vs. Blue/Microsoft.

 

What's sad is if Button didn't have that one second appearance on the show, Jan might have been able to do the same...but then Hasbro would be effectively ceding their intellectual property...at least I think that's how it works.

Bah, I need a lawyer to tell me what the deal is with this one again. :P Cause RvB is using a bunch of Master Chiefs and all..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's sad is if Button didn't have that one second appearance on the show, Jan might have been able to do the same...but then Hasbro would be effectively ceding their intellectual property...at least I think that's how it works.

Bah, I need a lawyer to tell me what the deal is with this one again. :P Cause RvB is using a bunch of Master Chiefs and all..

The protections afforded to intellectual property by copyright are not ceded by the copyright holder's inaction to enforce that copyright. The copyright holder has the discretion to choose who to enforce their copyright over and when. Hasbro could choose to ignore a popular YouTube channel for years before finally sending them a C&D letter; it wouldn't make any difference to the courts.

The purpose of copyright is to protect the copyright holder's exclusive right to the marketability of their intellectual property. The reason you see so much "discrepancy" online in how companies enforce their copyright over fan-created works is that they all have different perspectives on how those works affect the marketability of their property.

There are many videogame companies that embrace online fan-created works because they market towards an audience in the 15-year-old to 30-year-old range, which they know is prolific on the Internet and highly receptive to viral advertising (especially when it is fan-created). Companies that market to an audience in the 3-year-old to 7-year-old range on the other hand usually have a very different perspective. They aren't only marketing towards the age range wanting their products, but to the concerned parents and grandparents who will actually be the ones purchasing the products.

There is a joke in the Los Angeles County Superior Court system that "Lawyer Barbie" is the most active petitioner because Mattel will aggressively go after any un-licensed use of Barbie's name or image, no matter how small. Mattel spends a great deal of money influencing how the public perceives Barbie and that includes paying a legal team to ensure that nobody else is affecting that image in an adverse or unpredictable way. Compared to Mattel, Hasbro has been extremely understanding of the adult fandom devoted to MLP in spite of how consumers (parents) could perceive it negatively. Although there have been C&Ds issued to Fighting is Magic and Jan Animation, there are far more things which are just as popular that Hasbro has graciously tolerated so far. That makes them more deserving of our respect than our ridicule in my opinion.

Another thing that companies with iconic characters are concerned about preserving is their exclusive ability to make money from them. Disney won't even let go of an unrecognizable and unprofitable character like Clarabelle Cow seventy years after she stopped being relevant. If Disney can't find a way to make their characters profitable for themselves, then they'll damned well make sure that nobody else can either; especially not in a way that would contravene Disney's established image to replicate. It is easy to see how this kind of corporate thinking might have influenced Hasbro in their decision to C&D Jan Animation over their unique interpretation of Button.

There is something to be said of course about fair use. There's a point when a work is transformative or distinguishing enough that the similarities can be overlooked. There are also instances of parody that can allow the exact likeness of a character to be used. However, as with most matters of law, it ultimately comes down to what the courts decide. If an artist is sued over their use of something that falls under fair use or parody, they still have to prove it in court, and that isn't always within economic feasibility to accomplish.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the whims of Hasbro's legal "derp-artment", which are consistent only to them and outside our understanding, predictions, or control. Jug put it best earlier in saying that there really is no difference between Ponyville.net and Jan, because all it takes is a letter from hasbro for anything within the MLP fandom disappear. Right or wrong, that's just how it is.

I'm a glass-always-half-full kind of gal though, so I hope for the best: de minimis non curat lex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's sad is if Button didn't have that one second appearance on the show, Jan might have been able to do the same...but then Hasbro would be effectively ceding their intellectual property...at least I think that's how it works.

Bah, I need a lawyer to tell me what the deal is with this one again. :P Cause RvB is using a bunch of Master Chiefs and all..

Ultimately, it all comes down to the whims of Hasbro's legal "derp-artment", which are consistent only to them and outside our understanding

I guess that's all that can be said about it. When I mentioned ceding intellectual property, I meant that only if they entered a Red vs. Blue/Fluffle Puff style split revenue agreement where both Hasbro and Jan would make money off Button merchandise. I guess I still don't quite understand the nuances for what causes trademarks to be lost. (i.e. why we have Applejack in G4 but not Surprise) I thought there might be a difference between, say, Button and Queen Chrysalis...much Fluffle Puff merchandise has the image of Chrysalis but so does Hasbro's, while Hasbro has no intention on independently selling Button merch. I wonder if this distinction is legally important.

Or it could just be that the Fluffle Puff folks have more business savvy and approached Hasbro the right way.

Edited by sarysa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0