Arokhantos™

[Mapping] vsh_cellshader_b3 progress

27 posts in this topic

 

Fixed.

3D skybox

Skybox glitches

Lightning

Overflowed CclientRenderablesList issues possibly still around probably fixed.

nobuild launchpads fixed

launchpads adjusted probably fixed.

 

New

added floating spotlights

Fixed jump pads

Added sound to launchpad http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/8f/Soldier_taunt_flip_fun_04.wav?t=20140621020228

Added nobuild area to spawns

Added rainbow pillars 15-7-2014 same download

 

Potential issues/current issues

Missing textures rainbow pillars. fixed probably *confirmed* thanks Bananable

Lightning / black models currently non yet

crashes ? currently non yet

gameplay issues. sniper heaven possibly

 

To do list

Test lightning make sure no models end up purely black due random glitch.

Make sure map does't cause crashes.

Find major gameplay issues address then fix them.

gameplay finetune healthkit ammo crate placement to keep gameplay focused on whole map, and not just 1 platform, don't want another campfest map like volcanic.

 

Known issues with mapping.

Cannot use func_detail on spawn doors especially, causes weird glitches to become visible, may require complete design of spawn may even be forced to simplify it.

Basically the spawns i wasted bunch of day's on getting them right.

Anti flutterborn ceiling currently not functioning, b1 and b2 don't have it working either.

 

Screenshot

OxnGxwe.png

 

Feedback

When posting feedback keep in mind following for example when crashed, or experience major visual glitches etc etc.

 

Dxlevel if relevant?

computer specs if relevant?

Windows if relevant?

Screenshot if relevant?

Well you get the idea.

 

Download link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9mu88k31ikt2gp/vsh_cellshader_b3_fix2.bsp

bsp compile normal *check*

vis compile normal *check*

rad compile normal *check*

Edited by Arokhantos™
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It's inspired of oilrig and 2fort desk yes.

However don't have the 2 launchpads like on oilrig on this map, i'm considering adding 1 or 2 more platforms but those will be accessible by teleporter rather than a launchpad probably, else launchpads become too mainstream :P

 

Hammer screenshot

wju9PFl.png

Edited by Arokhantos™
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I don't know, I still think it's a copycat rather than an "inspiration" of 2 "maps."

 

If i was a copycat i would just copy the whole map, i didn't do that so stop calling me copy cat, this map project is like half year old more or less, and the only reason i stopped on it is because i ran into issues which i had no clue about what was causing them, untill i by accident found out it was just another lightning issue.

The only things it has in common is that its just another floating platform in mid of space type of map, nothing is final.

 

As for your worries about one raging players of the map like flutterborn i intent to add functional trigger_teleport area for red team on ceiling that only will reach during the rage, to avoid cheap stuff like that, however that's currently not functional probably cos there is a priority on trigger_teleport.

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I never directly called you a copycat, nor repeatedly called you a copycat, and I don't exactly know where you got about my worries of "one raging players off the map."  I know of how map making can get, and if I hit a nerve I am sorry for it.

 

But as for those floating platforms, what if the floating platforms have a small moving pattern, like clockwise, or back & forth, or side to side?

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You mean like floating balloon on sky resort ?

That can have lot gameplay issues, and my mapping knowledge is't at friagram's level so it may take a ton of research, most stuff i just learn at decompiling maps and checking how stuff is put together like launchpads for example, or to figure out what spotlights to use for my map etc.

 

Anyway if added some rainbow pillars to map mostly decoration and to make it less sniper heaven, and to add more color to the map.

 

when you re download map you can use same link as top post, you need to overwrite file if have old vsh_cellshader_b3

 

Any future fixes will compile into vsh_cellshader_b3_fixed if neccesary.

 

Anyway at the momment i'm stuck with apps that do not work, pakrat packbsp etc non of them are working, and i need pack textures with map.

 

edit: 23:42 15-7-2014

 

Found app called vide which has ability to include textures to bsp that where missing, changed download link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9mu88k31ikt2gp/vsh_cellshader_b3_fix2.bsp

 

with that most issues have been fixed, this build is probably ready for vsp also.

 

16-7-2014 2:18 updated download link to latest build of map, fixed launchpads.

Edited by Arokhantos™
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Well, not really like the balloon where it tours around the map, but something similar to it.  I was going more for just having the platforms staying around the vicinity to where it appears in those demo pictures (that is, the platforms with those ammo refills/health kits).

 

I'm not sure if this may be a twist, but what if at random the map were to invert itself, as to where the houses would be lower and the Control Point move upwards, with the ramps going up?

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Latest build vsh_cellshader_b5_fix

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dekfts3wykw3ym/vsh_cellshader_b5_fix.bsp

 

 

changes

retextured anything white cubes platforms light grey, exception being spotlight cubes.

 

fixes

Forgot retexture 1 side of a cube.

Fixed exploit, thanks squishy

 

Screenshot

8ZQ40Lj.jpg

 

 

 

Current progress on b6

HSdNXJk.gif

Edited by Arokhantos™
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I think it is awesome for a first map. Although it is similar in structure to oilrig, it is still very unique to look at visually. I especially love the lights attached to the floating squares; clever! I've added it today along with Skeith's new map.

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Well, it's colorful, I'll give it that.

 

I can't help but feel the colors on the outside might be a bit distracting, but hey, never know 'til you try.  If raini's throwing it in the mix, I'll give it a vote when it comes up.

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As it stands the biggest issue is just the overall layout is so bland/boring and no amount of colorful floating blocks is gonna change that :/

 

Lets break it down from the screenshots.

 

- Its very very open, meaning constant boss/sniper exposure. In comparison Oilrig had lots of fences/layers to create a enclosed spaces. Crevice had very selective paths people can transverse with various trees/cliffs/overhangs blocking vision. Kakario was also very open but only from the rooftops/air while below you can easily get flanked/lost while going through the town because the buildings/barriers went over your head.

- It looks very very small while being very large. Again this is because its a VERY simple design, it gives the sense of the maps scale while giving away its simplicity.

- Large amount of eye straining colors

- Its in dire need of actual stuff. Again from the screenshots I can tell just like Oilrig that its not exactly built for a 31v1 fight because its very open and places to set up Engineer buildings/operate is very limited due to the potentially high ceiling and the lack of props/barriers to hide from the boss in.

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Thanks for feedback everyone.

Anyway current progress on b6

 

Ls46l15.gif

 

To do list

Minor adjustments to platforms and launchpads.

Decoration around the map

Redo red team spawns, they will be in each red and blue spawn.

try out bunch different sky textures.

Actually test map with bunch of people, make fixes and changes if needed.

decoration around map pillars and so on, making it not possible to stand on rather then blocking off with invisible walls.

 

Well, it's colorful, I'll give it that.

 

I can't help but feel the colors on the outside might be a bit distracting, but hey, never know 'til you try.  If raini's throwing it in the mix, I'll give it a vote when it comes up.

 

I just wen't little overboard doing that, either way im gonna have to re do that part anyway not mention reduce amount of pillars, i spend 3 hours doing like 25+ path tracks, not gonna spend more then a week creating path tracks for decoration outside the map, so next build will lot less.

 

 

If you could change the skybox texture to something darker, that would make the light blocks stand out a lot better.

 

Defiantly trying new skyboxes, but to dark and the black outlines won't stand out, skybox would also have to be similar color scheme because 3D skybox has a mesh at bottom colored flat full bright texture to hide some stuff that don't want anyone to see.

Here is one i especialy like.

iQcVYSq.gif

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=291572675

 

 

As it stands the biggest issue is just the overall layout is so bland/boring and no amount of colorful floating blocks is gonna change that :/

 

Lets break it down from the screenshots.

 

- Its very very open, meaning constant boss/sniper exposure. In comparison Oilrig had lots of fences/layers to create a enclosed spaces. Crevice had very selective paths people can transverse with various trees/cliffs/overhangs blocking vision. Kakario was also very open but only from the rooftops/air while below you can easily get flanked/lost while going through the town because the buildings/barriers went over your head.

- It looks very very small while being very large. Again this is because its a VERY simple design, it gives the sense of the maps scale while giving away its simplicity.

- Large amount of eye straining colors

- Its in dire need of actual stuff. Again from the screenshots I can tell just like Oilrig that its not exactly built for a 31v1 fight because its very open and places to set up Engineer buildings/operate is very limited due to the potentially high ceiling and the lack of props/barriers to hide from the boss in.

 

the main platform on b5_fix was 5 times the size of snow dime, i downscaled it the wrong way end result was still good though, its the main reason i'm re working the platform or well i already did that in past just had to downscale it properly this time.

Not making platform go down like \ anymore on next build cos its very complicated, meshes get little buggy don't wanna risk that.

Map is indeed very open, and i'll try do anything possible to make it less off a sniper heaven, but i don't consider this massive issue, not all maps gonna be the same.

 

As for rest off the stuff i don't really understand.

Edited by Arokhantos™
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If you add in these colors from the map, plus from what the elements of VSP naturally contains, it can be murder to someone eyes.  Don't believe me?  Try play as Celestia or Surprise and then see if you can actually still play with the bulging pain that one's eyes will have.  If you can, please tone down the colors and add in more natural complexion and props onto the map.

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B6 release done, pillars around map will have to wait.

Also fixed being able to build sentries on top of rainbow pillars.

 

Changed the whole main platform to fix mesh issues, i may use lightmap textures in next build if i can lightmap scale it properly without ugly shadows, was't possible on previous platform cos would make mesh issues visible.

 

hale that falls thru floor will teleport to a floating block in the sky, with teleport destination being properly parented to the moving block, so should't get ever stuck inside a block.

 

Changed skybox to be pink which should be lot less brighter then light blue skybox, also made remaining white textures light grey.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwd6trt3i3oq8rk/vsh_cellshader_b6.bsp

 

 

I'll be working on it further probably tomorrow, trying to figure out how to get trigger teleport working on ceiling, and trigger_hurt for moving spotlights, though those are much harder to reach already.

 

If still have problems with brightness, there is't much more that i can try, i suggest toning down screen brightness, only time you should crank it up is when you play in a very bright room.

You don't need full brightness in a dark room.

Edited by Arokhantos™
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Nice improvements. I have not tried yet, and I forgot to suggest it, but the first design of the map, had an issue I didn't like. The circles were too close to the platform above it so I would bop my head if I walked to it (not stop on it) which made it a bit difficult to run from the hale.

 

I assume it is fixed, so good job!

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Will have to look into that for b7 build since b6 build already been submitted.

it best to walk onto it side way's.

No biggie, I don't really mind it since I can adapt, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it and all

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I'm calling this Crayonland. =P

 

Jokes aside, I like this map quite a lot. Waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Oilrig and Fortdesk (especially Fortdesk. God, how I dislike that map). At least for my taste. The improvements being made to it as shown in the videos seem to be turning out great, making an already good map an even better one. I need to say, that although I like it, the current version is a tad too bright and sometimes it confuses my aim (which already isn't the greatest when I'm tired. lol). The new colors sure will help a lot. It looks much more pleasing to the eyes with the pink sky and grey-ish ground instead of pure white. Also, I love the new floating... erm... crayons? Whatever those colored sticks at the corners are supposed to be.

Edited by Mike Dragon

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b6 build been delayed btw, need optimise but hopefully takes not to long, wen't little overboard with animations while i could have just rigged bunch of stuff to one animation.

 

This is how much difference light mapped textures could make, aiming a little bit more brighter though, however i seriously need to limit the variations of animations to maximum of 7 tank trains

ohnC7b5.jpg

 

The plan is to link most cubes to single tank train, reducing the amount from 91 to around 4 no more then 7 since that is the amount of tank trains sky resort has.

 

Only issues i may encounter is fixing angle which becomes slightly harder with linking more entity's to one single tank train, and centering stuff properly, but by now if kind of figured nearly everything out fully, so it may be done tonight or least within a few day's no promises though.

 

May be forced to make animated prop, and use dynamic props but i am unsure if light_spot can be parented to an animation and i'm guessing its not possible, which is why i'm trying new method first.

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Lets go ahead and compare this map with a couple others that are similar in design/execution, particularly:

  • Oilrig, overall similar design
  • 2fortdesk, same concept of an open/flat map with a gigantic pit, potentially distracting elements, and symmetrical design
  • skyhigh_resort, same concept of a open/white map with barely any room to move.

First off, lets get the most important aspect out of the way. GAMEPLAY

 

So the map has just loaded up, the boss has been selected, and we're about to kick some pony ass- Hold up, before you even bring in VSP/VSH/FF2 elements, lets break this down from the corest of cores of the gamemodes, Arena. Why you ask? Because at the end of the day, the gamemode is based off of arena originally and shares 70% of the same idea: You want to live and complete the objective like any other TF2 gamemode, except this objective is to wipe out the other team. How you play is dependent on your playstyle and the class you currently are. Classes like Soldier/Demoman/Pyro will just rush into the fight while classes like Engineer/Medic/Sniper would be more concerned about getting somewhere safe. With this in mind, lets consider first spawning in and decided where you are going.

 

Right out of spawn on all 3 maps, you have a nice wide open view of all the points of interest where you might wanna go.

  • Oilrig:
    • Radio Tower basin
    • Radio Tower (ontop of, its possible)
    • Helipad basin
    • Helipad itself (ontop of)
    • Below to a Launcher to your right (its always on the right side of a spawn)
    • Capture Point
    • Boiler Room below Capture Point
    • Lower walkways (where the launchers are)
    • Roofs of Spawn
    • Catwalk pipes (protected by fences)
    • Exposed pipes
    • Ontop fo the Fences surrounding the Capture Point
  • 2fortdesk
    • Capture Point (Open area between the two book stacks, includes pencil/paper area)
    • Ontop of either of the books the surround the capture point
    • Ruler that connects the two books
    • Underneath the books near the RED spawn (where the Launchers are)
    • Ontop of the books where the Launcher leads
    • Opening that connects the two launcher exits
    • Ontop of the highest book in which the opening is
    • Underneath one of the chocolate bars
    • General RED spawn (underneath central book)
  • Skyhigh Resort
    • Hot Air Balloon
    • Pool Area
    • Pool Area Roof
    • RED spawn Balloon
    • BLU spawn tram station
    • Radio Tower
    • Trams themselves
    • Breakable bridge area
    • Tram Rails that extend outward
    • Billboard Room (roofed area near BLU spawn)
    • Beach Room underneath Billboard Room

Thats quite a lot of places to go just from either spawn! What does cellshade offer?

  • Central raised platform
  • another house
  • outlying raised platforms
  • general squared area
  • ontop of a light box

Well that doesn't seem like I got a lot of options compared to the others. It just seems like the map doesn't really have a whole lot nor a lot of good areas that I might be able to hide in as an Engineer/Sniper or flank as a Demoman/Spy. There also seems to be a lack of a good staging area especially when I'm an engineer since everything is visible from just 1 explosive jump. Lets move on, you said a good amount of the maps had distracting elements that might either deter from gameplay or harm the players eyes, lets discuss those.

I know a lot of map developers want to put their design or apply a certain style to a map but sometimes either the player has sensitive eyes, doesn't have a good GPU, or just hate how somethings look. Something a lot of stock TF2 maps and even the game itself has a good centralized color scheme of a map that isn't as distracting to the player and the flow makes sense for the games style. Dustbowl is infact a dustbowl with added mining equipment, the entire map covered in large orange rocks/terrain, Sawmill takes place in a abandoned sawmill in a valley that looks like it had some lumberwork back in its prime. This brings me to a side point that the map should generally flow to a central design and not have something that seems out of place. A grand piano in the middle of a secret nuclear bunker doesn't make much sense and neither does having a mining cart out in the middle a lumberyard.

Anyways back to the matter at hand, whats distracting/unnatural in some of the example maps.

 

  • Oilrig - This actually has the least distracting elements and the overall flow of the map fits together, its a dark abandoned oilrig in the middle of a large lake (for some reason...). Biggest issue it really has its a little hard to see certain things but primarily its easy to decern something off in the distance as being a player then a map element.
  • 2fortdesk - This one has quite a lot of distracting/unfitting elements ranging from brightly/off colored books in a rather TF2 styled environment. And while the cute animations that happen in the skybox are indeed neat to watch can become very distracting.
  • Skyhigh Resort - Overall visual design of this map isn't too bad but its quite bright even with HDR turned off, everything in it is on the lighter side of the color spectrum with not a lot of dark areas.
  • Cellshade - It very much does for the cell shade look but when the overall game isn't visually designed that way and the fact that theres still lighting in the map which doesn't give the same cellshaded look to the players, it seems very out of place. That plus the addition of VERY bright solid colors can very much hurt the eyes. I kinda class cellshade maps in the same category as Orange, Flat-Colored MLP/Stylized, Minecraft, or Nintendo ripped maps, while yes they go for a different style, I don't think having them for actual gameplay would be a good idea since it tends to distract more than the traditional TF2 look. 

Coming up next! Entire Map Layouts.

 

I'll finish the rest of the later, for now this should give you a good idea of what the problem is.

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Still better then volcanic which is just about 2 mountains and sentry nests.

You can add a lot of stuff and over complicate map, but with cellshader i intended it to be as simple as possible because its my first map.

 

Some stuff took me day's to get rid, if you have any idea how to add cellshading effect to a box then you know when start making it more complex it starts getting lot harder, so i kept it simple.

 

If got something much better in mind for next map, but first will need a long break when i'm done with b6_fix build.

 

If you think you can do better, go ahead make something, competition is good :P

Edited by Arokhantos™

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I just got done trying the latest version of b6_fix, and aside from an issue building on the hale's spawn, it's not that bad. The map isn't exactly the Braid of level design, but it's a trippy, unique experience thanks to the one simple gimmick.

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I wanna thank everyone who been around tonight helping me stress test map.

 

  • Skeith
  • Squishy
  • sarysa
  • ★Reddle★
  • ๖ۣۜDarkkiller
  • bscurion the angel of darkness
  • [GS] SpeTsNaZ FireXtremeZ
  • Princess Emerald Rump (Emma)™
  • Oddponi
  • ᖇᗴᖙ ℱᗝჯ
  • Blue fire™[Eevee]
  • Rainford
  • Thunder Runner
  • Klaks
  • Boomerang
  • ☾Gamer Lunatic★™
  • мαүs мcмυғғιη
  • C0N0RB0B
  • [GS] SpeTsNaZ FireXtremeZ
  • Ðeflector™
  • happyalm
  • Taoru
  • iGarf
  • Gunpow.JT
  • FERNANDO's Playhouse™
  • Sea-shroom The Captain
  • Emerald Candy
 
Sorry if i missed any names.
 
I may have to remove the spotlights of the cubes cos they may add up to much load however i'm not sure if there is a load issue, however it puts out same load as skyresort, it may be fine.
 
Some issues that where discovered.
Nobuild not working yet on rainbow pillars probably an easy fix, probably just forgot to parent nobuild to new tanktrains.
 
Some launchpads not working properly sometimes have to look into it, possibly just make brush higher will fix it.
Make the pink launchpad brushes touch the floor actually.
 
And make dedicated static platform at top of map for hale to spawn and teleport to when falling inside pit.
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