Scootz

Map Talk

31 posts in this topic

So, let's talk about maps. 

 

I know Sarysa also made a post about this, but it's mostly about adding maps, this topic is about getting RID of maps.

 

There are maps we like, and there are maps we absolutely hate and I am talking about those overplayed, sniper filled and god awful movement maps.

 

What maps I feel should be removed and my reasons why.

 

-Crevice

Overplayed, Over Rated and everytime this map is played some people even LEAVE the server cause how bad it is and the amount of snipers we see there are at least 8-10 snipers every round. The talk yesterday on the server made it clear this map should be removed

 

-Dunes

There is one game breaking spot that literally makes it so teleport hales CANNOT reach the spot and is a massive struggle for normal hales to even get to it, if you are a engie and have a airblasting pyro, this certain spot here can downright win a round no matter what.

 

-Orange

Please, this map is another map that should be removed because how bad it is. The map is so orange it hurts the eyes, you keep on falling threw the floor and have to walk back up the stairs and it's downright bad.

 

-Chemical 

This map has so many invisible walls it's not even funny, the layout is awful and the designer made most of the map unplayable on.

 

-Beach

Awful, just awful. Sniper heaven, horrible slopes, water is missing textures, terrible colour, so laggy and everyone hates it. You can hit the hale from spawn, break the map in some places. Please this one needs to be removed.

 

-Megaman

I honestly like this map... before it was updated. The update made the map so big and so laggy it's really hard to play, if we can go to a earlier version map should be fine.

 

-Apg

This map is decent I have nothing wrong with it, it's just how buggy this map is. There are so many bugs everywhere it's not even funny.

 

Alright, well there goes my rant, if any of you have anything about this list or want to add to it comment below would be lovely.

 

 

 

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-Crevice

Overplayed, Over Rated and everytime this map is played some people even LEAVE the server cause how bad it is and the amount of snipers we see there are at least 8-10 snipers every round. The talk yesterday on the server made it clear this map should be removed

 

-Dunes

There is one game breaking spot that literally makes it so teleport hales CANNOT reach the spot and is a massive struggle for normal hales to even get to it, if you are a engie and have a airblasting pyro, this certain spot here can downright win a round no matter what.

 

-Orange

Please, this map is another map that should be removed because how bad it is. The map is so orange it hurts the eyes, you keep on falling threw the floor and have to walk back up the stairs and it's downright bad.

 

-Chemical 

This map has so many invisible walls it's not even funny, the layout is awful and the designer made most of the map unplayable on.

 

-Beach

Awful, just awful. Sniper heaven, horrible slopes, water is missing textures, terrible colour, so laggy and everyone hates it. You can hit the hale from spawn, break the map in some places. Please this one needs to be removed.

 

-Megaman

I honestly like this map... before it was updated. The update made the map so big and so laggy it's really hard to play, if we can go to a earlier version map should be fine.

 

-Apg

This map is decent I have nothing wrong with it, it's just how buggy this map is. There are so many bugs everywhere it's not even funny.

 

Having a sniper limit is needed for maps that are overwhelmingly one sided for snipers. Dunes definitely needs to go, the spot that Scootz speaks of is broken and it would be easier to remove the map outright then to track down the author for a fix.

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Buggy maps aside, if people are voting for the map, then that is the map that they want to play. If the map is default selected or in some way being selected without player voting, then suggest it being removed from that system, not that it be removed from being nominated or otherwise unplayable.

Edited by Disowned and Damaged. Inc
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Buggy maps aside, if people are voting for the map, then that is the map that they want to play. If the map is default selected or in some way being selected without player voting, then suggest it being removed from that system, not that it be removed from being nominated or otherwise unplayable.

That may be true, but sometimes players just press 4 to get the voting system out of the way.

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Buggy maps aside, if people are voting for the map, then that is the map that they want to play. If the map is default selected or in some way being selected without player voting, then suggest it being removed from that system, not that it be removed from being nominated or otherwise unplayable.

That may be true, but sometimes players just press 4 to get the voting system out of the way.

 

Then that is still the choice of the players, and they can revote if its accidental.

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If that spot on Dunes does make it a guaranteed one-sided win for the Mercs, then yes I do believe that it should be removed.

 

For the other maps, I honestly believe that the issue could be fix if we introduce another limited class slot, this one for the Sniper class.

But, this one will be scaled per the amount of players currently on:

1-20: 3 Snipers Max

21-29: 4 Snipers Max

30-32: 5 Snipers Max

 

Another solution, but one of a lesser priority, should be a much longer cooldown for some of the maps that get constantly voted on.

 

Either that, or after going though the halfway point of the current map time limit and the current round gets finished, there will be a round that's dedicated to selecting the maps.  However, the voting options gets switched to the Function Keys rather than using the number keys, that way everyone can actually decide on what map they want to vote on, rather than blindly vote for something just to simply "close the map vote menu."

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Most of those maps General Scootz listed I agree on removing or at the least change some like the megaman map to a older version which was smaller. I have got some maps that i would like removing or for some to be edited if they can.

 

vsh_citypeak_v1

 

This map is badly designed, especially towards engineers as there is barely anywhere to build sentry's or dispensers and the spots that you can build are ineffective against the boss. The map is a pain to go around, if you fall off a platform it takes a long time to get back up and from what I've seen there is a spot which some-people have reached (possibly glitched) which the hale can't reach but the player can't attack either stalling matches if there the last player. 

 

vsh_hydro_pb2 arena_coldfront_pb4

 

These maps aren't bad but they both suffer from the same problem, the brightness settings (or bloom not sure which one) on these maps are super bright which can blind you in certain spots, if its possible could these maps have this tone down so it easier to see on these maps.

 

 

Buggy maps aside, if people are voting for the map, then that is the map that they want to play. If the map is default selected or in some way being selected without player voting, then suggest it being removed from that system, not that it be removed from being nominated or otherwise unplayable.

That may be true, but sometimes players just press 4 to get the voting system out of the way.

 

I got a possible suggestion on tweaking the voting system to reduce people spamming the first map on the list. When the map vote comes up a new menu pops up asking if the player wants to vote for the next map (1 = yes, 2 = no). If they select yes they go to a new menu with the maps. You could also add a small delay after pressing yes to prevent people spamming 1 as well.

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Well since I'm partially to blame for this becoming a thing, I'd like to at least get some input and thoughts in before any rash decisions are made. I'm going to categorize maps from my point of view:

 

Personal Taste
Frankly I don't get why Crevice, Megaman, Chemical or Apg are on the list. They all function perfectly fine. Is Crevice overplayed? Oh boy is it ever. But that's not exactly criteria for map removal...in fact that's more of an argument for keeping it around.

 

Megaman is a large map, but it's generally not a GPU killer. It might be a problem for non-graphical hardware due to all the map layout data it needs to store...but geez, how old is your PC? Non-graphical hardware has been at more or less a standstill for about the last 8 years. This one also feels like personal preference, due to its size. (though rumors circulate that the author will make a slim, sexy version ;P )

 

Chemical's invisible walls are generally at logical boundaries. The skybox is high, which is good design for a hale map. Not entirely sure where you're going with this. I've seen far worse...like Badlands. If I were to pick one map to remove due to the issues you described, Badlands would be the one.

 

You'll have to elaborate with Apg, because I've been witness to many, many problem-free runs of this map. As it stands, removing Apg is a matter of personal taste.

 

Bad Lighting
Orange and Beach both qualify for this. Perfectly good maps with bad lighting. (well, beach is a perfectly good map. orange is just godawful) There is an alternate version of the map floating around called calamity beach (download). Maybe it's time to give that a whirl.
 

Bannable Spots

Time to talk about Dunes and similar maps. I've mentioned my thoughts about the Widowmaker. Frankly I think it needs to go, or be redone in a way that forces the enemy to take breaks. I've also mentioned my thoughts on pyros, increasing the airblast cost if too many are fired consecutively, and slowly taking it back down. I could code the second, and hell I could even make code for the first that prevents the widowmaker from having any knockback, as an alternative to removing it completely or nerfing it into the ground.

 

I'd like to offer another solution, however: toxic spots. It'd take very little time to code, and be map specific. (configurable in a format similar to FF2's .cfg files) Every second, on these spots, RED players can take considerable damage, lose ammo/metal, and/or be rendered unable to fire/use melee. It could make these spots unlivable, definitely impossible to be productive in any way. It'd be a great way to automatically police bannable spots. As it stands, this spot, one in hydrothunder (the high vents in the center left where engies can build a dispenser), and the vents above red spawn in rockslide are all problem spots. They could be solved easily by making them toxic.

 

It's a hell of a lot better than removing these maps.

Edited by sarysa
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Can a tiny grace for engines, nothing crazy maybe a 2 second grace for under the stairs. Just a small time to set up a teleport-er, and and use it, but still Dissuade camping in the spot with sentry.

 

The reason I ask is, some Toxic spots Such as the place behind the stairs makes a good place to put a get a way. teleport-er the hale is unlikely to find till after a engine used it once, or the hale is savvy in engineering teleport locations.

Edited by Natsumehack

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Can a tiny grace for engines, nothing crazy maybe a 2 second grace for under the stairs. Just a small time to set up a teleport-er, and and use it, but still Dissuade camping in the spot with sentry.

 

The reason I ask is, some Toxic spots Such as the place behind the stairs makes a good place to put a get a way. teleport-er the hale is unlikely to find till after a engine used it once, or the hale is savvy in engineering teleport locations.

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You'd have to stay there at least 10 seconds to die (usually engies are always above 100 health), I don't think that's necessary. You can put a teleport there in about 3 seconds and you'll only lose 20hp tops.

 

But I'm a bit concerned about rage farming even though I'm not active on vsp

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Spots become bannable spots because they're too abusable. That spot in Dunes got a lot of complaints so it has to go. That said, dunes has tons of good spots for you to put your teleporter exit.

 

All the other spots I submitted this with are either bonafide exploits or awkward crouch jump spots that a widowmaker or brass beast could abuse. I'm not really fond of shutting down a spot that looks like the author intended it, but well everyone makes design mistakes. Heh.

Edited by sarysa

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You'd have to stay there at least 10 seconds to die (usually engies are always above 100 health), I don't think that's necessary. You can put a teleport there in about 3 seconds and you'll only lose 20hp tops.

 

But I'm a bit concerned about rage farming even though I'm not active on vsp

 

You also got to consider

You don't always get OHKO by a crit, or normal attack, and make it in with a little HP.

 

It would be pretty shitty end to a match, if you escape only for toxicity to kill you a moment later. 

 

I am not asking for every spot, just that one spot on dunes a tiny grace time.

 

Pretty Please with sprinkles on top.

 

On the whole rage farming, It be pretty risky For the hale, one second too long and they might take more damage then they wanted. 

 

We would have to see how that plays out.

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I'll just post this here since I dunno where else to post it.

The map vsh_chemical_v1.bsp has a few issues.

Found a really broken sentry spot first of all. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=426625510

The sentry can actually shoot through the platform that I'm  standing on in the screenshot. So if a player tries to go to the side of it where the sentry is not in view, they can still be shot. Kinda hard to explain but if you've used the spot, you'll probably know what I'm talking about.

There's also just lot of invisible objects around the map that a majority of the players cannot see, and it can be frustrating running into nothing.

 

I'm requesting for either the map to be removed entirely, or at least have that spot be deemed kickable/bannable/whatever.

Edited by Col(gate)

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I honestly haven't played on all the new maps.. but i can agree that chemical(escuse my language) is a piece of s**t. Like everyone said.. It's badly designed and is down right crap.. get it out of the map cycle. I would input more but i have yet to REALLY play on the other new maps.. im usually on the EU server wchich avoids them like the cooties. Again i apologize for the language,

Edited by ♥Steel Crescent♥

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Would you guys still play on chemical if there were to be a redesign, or would you not bother on playing on anything chemical at all?

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Would you guys still play on chemical if there were to be a redesign, or would you not bother on playing on anything chemical at all?

 

Would this redesign be to the whole map or just the problematic areas such as that sentry spot Colgate mentioned and the invisible walls?

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Would you guys still play on chemical if there were to be a redesign, or would you not bother on playing on anything chemical at all?

 

Would this redesign be to the whole map or just the problematic areas such as that sentry spot Colgate mentioned and the invisible walls?

 

i assume he means the full map.. which includes the problem areas and the sentry spot. Though now that i think about i do like the beach map. As i said before EU server tends to avoid these maps except beach,the halo 2 map, and i think APG.

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I honestly don't really hate the map overall, just that sentry spot is incredibly cheap, and not being able to see half the props gets annoying. If the map was somehow fixed, I wouldn't mind playing on it.

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Old thread is old.

Can we get vsh_megaman6_b5d removed? The map is wayyy to big, the sound for most bosses doesn't even work on it, and so many of the rounds get stalemated.

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I was happy with the previous megaman map that we had, but with the current one we have, I only feel indifferent.

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I really hate the music replacement on this map... it ruins the great feeling from the bosses. Remove it :D

 

And please remove Pumpkin Farm, it's the worst map in the server. It contains places to hide (especially underground)... too much planks, fences, etc to break to move around... lots of unfair sentry spots...

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