Rainy

[Versus Ponyville] Boss Suggestions (Mechanics, Music, Etc.)

1917 posts in this topic

Alright, since I'm back from vacations and all that (for now), I've been back and playing more. I have a few suggestions which could be interesting, and one suggestion I think is more of a fix.

 

Crusader's Crossbow:

This thing got nerfed for a reason, but after looking at it's stats, it kinda sucks. +20% damage with no medi-gun makes it an almost useless weapon. Everybody uses the syringe guns (and varients) now; Could there be a change? (More damage, like up to 100%, or medi-gun back, since it doesn't build uber and rarely hits 200+).

 

Hunstman:

This thing has crap ammo and the sniper rifle easily outplays it. People rarely use it; Either an ammo buff (+50% primary ammo) or Jug's previously mentioned buff of 330% damage without crits.

 

Freedom Staff:

This guy is annoying. The jump is slightly higher than the boss can easily reach, so jukes are made much easier for some classes (medics, snipers) that shouldn't be able to escape as easily as they can. Maybe increase the damage on it by ~10-20%, and reduce the firing speed by 30% (to compensate if it's actually used in combat).

 

KBG:

These guys are still annoying to kill, even with crits (overheal/chocolate allows them to survive a crit sometimes). Perhaps reduce the damage reduction slightly, but provide some crit resistence to make it the same to kill every time? (3 hits-ish)

 

 

 

Discord Rage:

An interesting twist I thought of for Discord would be (in addition to the current rage) swap people's positions around. That way, if somebody was running away from the hale, they'd be swapped elsewhere and could perhaps run off an edge. It would also make it quite interesting for camping engineers, or a medic building up his uber.

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Crossbow - Yeah, didn't realize its damage was reduced when the disable medigun was implemented and since its current damage is much weaker then its original super powerful 300+ a hit we could reenable the medigun use or just return it to its traditional damage bonus (100-150%) while keeping the disable medigun. 

 

Huntsman - The idea behind boosting its damage so much while removing its all-crits would make it so it would traditionally do the damage it does now but if you manage a headshot, it would amplify the hell outta that damage, definitely something the weapon could use.

 

Freedom Staff - Yup, needs some changes since its used for juking and escalating players, same goes for the Bat Outta Hell (which the later of the 2 think it needs complete self push force removal)

 

KGB - The idea I posted earlier in this thread regarding changing its mechanics would help balance it out

 

Discord - Not bad

Edited by TheGreatJug™

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Something like that could be applied to the sniper riffles. Both if you headshot or bodyshot does the same damage, I think something could be done about headshots, the only benefit you get from it it's the crit knockback. Maybe on headshots snipers could add double (or +50%) time to the outlines. Like, fully charged bodyshot: 10s outlines, fully charged headshot: 20s (or 15s) outlines, just to make it fair, and make people actually go for a headshot (as it's much easier to just bodyshot), because it's way easier to headshot with the riffle than the huntsman, so extra damage could be unfair if the player is good at sniping.

 

The bat-outta-hell could have it's push force nerfed (about 10% or 20%) instead of completely removed, so it won't be the same as the freedom staff. Unless it becomes like the freedom staff without the incoming nerfs.

 

Also, I think the direct hit is way too nerfed, it should allow at least two or three rocket jumps. At the moment, one rocket jump without gunboats and you're dead (~180 jump damage + fall damage). Two with the gunboats and you die.

 

Edit: About Applejack, she's still taking double knockback (due to the push-force taken from damage on her weapon?). This was happening since dashy's mod, in the notes (when it was added) he said that applejack would be immune to knockback (and probably here is where that attribute was added, but it seems he added the wrong attribute).

But actually, since her rage makes her immune to knockback, double knockback while not raging could be "fair".

 

Edit²: Could thirdperson be removed from blu team? I think it's unfair for spies to backstab a boss that can see if there's someone behind him.

Edited by No Name

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In terms of Rarity, I have been noticing that the effects of a successful backstab with her Your Eternal Reward don't take into effect.  Has there been a change that I might have missed, or is it a bug that occurred that's been left untouched for a while?

 

As for the knockback that happens while AJ is using her rage, it really needs to go away, otherwise her rage will be redundant.

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I remembered something I tought about, could we have last player alive songs? So the song would change if there's only one player alive.

Either per-boss last songs, or around 5 last player songs (I know, kinda of a copy from ozfur, but less work than choose a last player song for each boss).

 

And I know, I could just edit myself the files that are triggered when there's only one player alive (e.g discord's "i'm ready to be defeated, fire when ready" line, and add a song to the end of it, or during the voice lines).

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I remembered something I tought about, could we have last player alive songs? So the song would change if there's only one player alive.

Either per-boss last songs, or around 5 last player songs (I know, kinda of a copy from ozfur, but less work than choose a last player song for each boss).

 

And I know, I could just edit myself the files that are triggered when there's only one player alive (e.g discord's "i'm ready to be defeated, fire when ready" line, and add a song to the end of it, or during the voice lines).

Hmm... that last part does seem interesting: whenever there's a last man standing: a target board appears around Discord's chest while he says his line from the show.

 

And even if there's a last player song: this may cross some borders, that is if this feature doesn't cross Leon's elongated "VSH creation borders"

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Also, I think the direct hit is way too nerfed, it should allow at least two or three rocket jumps. At the moment, one rocket jump without gunboats and you're dead (~180 jump damage + fall damage). Two with the gunboats and you die.

 

On nucelus once I did a minor rocket jump with the Direct Hit and suddenly had 30 hp left even with Gunboats on. Oh and don't use the Direct Hit at point blank range.  Insta-Death, which makes me sad :/

 

 

 

 

Boss Idea Below

--------------------

 

Braeburn

 

Abilities: SuperJump - Weighdown - Immune to Sentry Knockback

 

Rage: Lasso

 

Pulls the 2 or 3 farthest players to Braeburn, stunning them based on how far away they were from him. 1 - 4 Seconds.

Does 0 Damage.

May only be used Twice in a life.

Edited by Sacredragon

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New Boss/Hale: The Diamond Dogs (Trio)

Shared Skills: Rechargable Teleport, Weigh down.

Shared passives: +75% knockback force, split health.

Welp, looks like the Diamond Dogs are hungry for revenge to what Rarity has done to them. Not only they would like to destroy her friends, they have also grew an interest in destroying the mercinaries as well, but things grew much more dangerous once they've obtained their own arsenal from Saxton Hale himself..

---------------------------------------

> Rover: 240px-DD_Rover_ID_S1E19.png

Rage - [Delve] Given primary weapon (908), teleports to player,
can trigger stun (if close by players)

Stun duration(players): 0-5 seconds

Stun activation key: R (1 use)

Rage Decription: Rover's main role is to pick off his enemies safely from a long distance,
leaving his enemies scrambling for cover or to distract them with his tracer rounds. However he can quickly give himself away when he fires his first shot.

* But if he chooses to surprise his enemies, he can quickly teleport to his enemy and trigger a stun
using the R key to stun others around him for a short amount of time. (same manner as 'burrowing' to his enemies in that one episode)
 
Rage Weapon:

(908) Diamond Botkiller Sniper Rifle Mk. I

Weapon attributes (primary):

389 + Shot penetrates through players

15 - Random crits removed

42 - No headshots

305 - Fires tracer rounds

258 + Ammo becomes health (doesn't heal)

3 - Clip size penalty (-50%)

Weapon of choice for melee: 1013 (Ham Shank)

Weapon attributes (melee):

437 + Crits vs stunned players

1 - Damage penalty (-25%)

39 - Damage penalty vs non-stunned players

Model animation type: Sniper

Overpowered?:

Rover's playstyle can be quite devastating if not taken care of, so be sure to rely on Pyro's and
Spies to flush him out since fire can make him flinch, and his solitary position can encourage spies to deliver a quick hit-and-run backstab.

-------------------------------------------


> Fido: 200px-DD_Fido_ID_S1E19.png

Rage - [Gourge] Given Primary weapon (909), teleports to player, can trigger knockback force using an activation key.

Knockback activation key: R (1 use)

Rage Description: Fido's main role is to spread enemies away from their defences or to aid his allies by pushing through the heat of the battle.

Rage weapon:

(909) Diamond Botkiller Mini-gun Mk. I

Weapon attributes (primary):

1 - Damage penalty (-85%)

258 + Ammo becomes health (doesn't heal)

3 - Clip size penalty (-50%)

209 + Mini-crits vs burning player

15 - Random Crits removed

430 + Ring of fire while aiming

* -5 ammo consumed while deployed

* Unaffected by deployment movement speed

Afterburn duration: 0-6 seconds

Afterburn damage: -3hp per tick / -4hp per tick with mini-crit


Weapon of choice for melee: 1013 (Ham Shank)

Weapon attributes (melee):

437 + Crits vs stunned players

1 - Damage penalty (-25%)

39 - Damage penalty vs non-stunned players

Model animation type: Heavy

Overpowered?:

Although Fido's role is to simply deploy his mini-gun to spread damage with fire and lead, he is the easiest
target to be pushed away from sentries and pyro's in a defensive position. Not only that, his fire can be extinguished by pyro compression blasts, healing from medics/dispensers, and health packs.

----------------------------------------------------


> Spot: 200px-DD_Spot_ID_S1E19.png

Rage - [Excavate] Given secondary weapon (913), teleports to player, can trigger fear to nearby players and disables sentries(if in close proximity).

Fear duration(players): 0-3 seconds

Fear duration(sentries): 0-7 seconds

Fear activation key: R (1 use)

Rage description: Spot's main role to disable and destroy enemy structures with his sticky bombs, allowing his allies to
get to their targets safer from sentry nests.

Rage weapon:

(913) Diamond Botkiller sticky bomb launcher Mk. I


Weapon attributes (primary):

258 + Ammo becomes health (doesn't heal)

3 - Clip size penalty (-50%)

1 - Damage penalty (-70%)

15 - Random crits removed

137 - Increased Damage vs. buildings (+65%)

* - Cannot perform a stickyjump

Weapon of choice for melee: 1013 (Ham Shank)

Weapon attributes (melee):

437 + Crits vs stunned players

1 - Damage penalty (-25%)

39 - Damage penalty vs non-stunned players

Model animation type: Demoman

Overpowered?:

Since Spot is the only one to take down a sentry with ease, it is best to watch out for his sticky bombs,
luckily they can be either airblasted or shot to prevent any havoc from his destructive skill.

Possible theme:

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About the attribute recently(?) added to the huntsman, how longer the arrow travels, more damage, it doesn't seem to work with fully charged arrows. If it's working, only works with non-charged arrows.

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This may be a long shot: but being of how Rarity was much involved with the Diamond Dogs, maybe perhaps she can be of aid to the RED team?  For example, let's just say that the Diamond Dogs manages to take out a good amount of players (say: 12 out of 20 players on the field).  When this happens, whoever is dead gets to come back to life as Rarity.  Her attributes would be the same, except that she will only have her Your Eternal Reward and in place of her rage, she will equip the Invis Watch.  As for her health, it should be greater than that of any player on the RED team, yet significantly less than what her regular HP would be when she is the Hale.  I would estimate that at least 500-785 health should be given to her the moment she spawns.  Thoughts?

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This may be a long shot: but being of how Rarity was much involved with the Diamond Dogs, maybe perhaps she can be of aid to the RED team?  For example, let's just say that the Diamond Dogs manages to take out a good amount of players (say: 12 out of 20 players on the field).  When this happens, whoever is dead gets to come back to life as Rarity.  Her attributes would be the same, except that she will only have her Your Eternal Reward and in place of her rage, she will equip the Invis Watch.  As for her health, it should be greater than that of any player on the RED team, yet significantly less than what her regular HP would be when she is the Hale.  I would estimate that at least 500-785 health should be given to her the moment she spawns.  Thoughts?

 

It's a good idea, although judging by the gameplay as is newer players would shoot at Rarity. If a message was to come up telling both enemies and allies about the spawn, it would be cool, although I think there should be some sort of factor that plays into who gets to be Rarity; You don't want an afk getting this position, so perhaps a minimum damage requirement to be able to be selected (still random, however).

 

 

Current Boss Ideas:

As previously mentioned, a few changes to Discord would be nice. I already suggested a player position swap as an addition to the rage to encourage more chaos, especially for those holding down m1/running around. Even just disguising after rage would be nice, so it would be more likely for allies to be shot. As it stands right now, the 'chaos' of friendly fire applies on rare occasions, unless the players are actually going for team kills.

 

Also, Big Mac could really use a Super Jump. When I got randomned as him, I struggled to get to any sentry nest, as I could not reach them (Dispenser jumping engies), especially since my partner died. If this is a bug it's unfortunate :(

 

 

Shotgun Ideas:

Then there's shotguns. Nobody uses shotguns, even engineers (unless it's frontier justice gunslinger combo, or airblast + reserve shooter pyro)). I'd like to see more shotgun play around, but perhaps a twist on the shotguns itself would be nice. Here are the options I was thinking about below:

 

Damage buff:

-Add minicrits to shotguns (Even Engineer, as they aren't allowed one with Jag and the SH reduced the sentries output damage);

-+20% damage, +25% reload speed

 

New effect/gameplay:

- -25 max hp; -1 hp/s while active; +10 health on hit

     Overall this would encourage the shotgun to be used should survivability be a priority AS WELL AS trying to deal damage; This would lower soldier/pyro/heavy survivability while also helping them stay alive longer need be (Ex- Rocket Jumping, Fall damage, Certain rages ect.)

 

- +150% damage; No Random Critical Hits; -30% firing speed; -20% movement speed while active; -50% Weapon Swap Speed

     This would server as more of a nuke weapon; No crits would prevent camping without the hale being able to reach you, but still acts more of a camper weapon, reducing movement speed and firing speed, you'll need to set up and aim each shot carefully, while not being too far out of the fight. Perhaps not allow this on an engineer,

 

 

 

The stuff below has been suggested in more detail previously, here's a recap + brief ideas:

 

Other Weapons

Which should be nerfed:

-Freedom Staff + Bat Outta Hell (Mentioned - FS Just increase damage and reduce swing speed (30% to each), BOH reduce self launch force (maybe even to -50%))

-Cleaver (Reduce recharge speed to 80% maybe, reduce damage slightly, like 10%-15%)

 

Which should be buffed:

-Huntsman (Damage buff; no crits + damage buff + further damage on headhot; More ammo; Faster draw speed/movement speed while readied)

-Crusader's Crossbow (150% damage or medi-gun back)

 

That is all. Proceed.

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Shotgun Ideas:

Then there's shotguns. Nobody uses shotguns, even engineers (unless it's frontier justice gunslinger combo, or airblast + reserve shooter pyro)). I'd like to see more shotgun play around, but perhaps a twist on the shotguns itself would be nice. Here are the options I was thinking about below:

 

Damage buff:

-Add minicrits to shotguns (Even Engineer, as they aren't allowed one with Jag and the SH reduced the sentries output damage);

-+20% damage, +25% reload speed

 

New effect/gameplay:

- -25 max hp; -1 hp/s while active; +10 health on hit

     Overall this would encourage the shotgun to be used should survivability be a priority AS WELL AS trying to deal damage; This would lower soldier/pyro/heavy survivability while also helping them stay alive longer need be (Ex- Rocket Jumping, Fall damage, Certain rages ect.)

 

- +150% damage; No Random Critical Hits; -30% firing speed; -20% movement speed while active; -50% Weapon Swap Speed

     This would server as more of a nuke weapon; No crits would prevent camping without the hale being able to reach you, but still acts more of a camper weapon, reducing movement speed and firing speed, you'll need to set up and aim each shot carefully, while not being too far out of the fight. Perhaps not allow this on an engineer,

 

 

 

The stuff below has been suggested in more detail previously, here's a recap + brief ideas:

 

Other Weapons

Which should be nerfed:

-Freedom Staff + Bat Outta Hell (Mentioned - FS Just increase damage and reduce swing speed (30% to each), BOH reduce self launch force (maybe even to -50%))

-Cleaver (Reduce recharge speed to 80% maybe, reduce damage slightly, like 10%-15%)

 

Which should be buffed:

-Huntsman (Damage buff; no crits + damage buff + further damage on headhot; More ammo; Faster draw speed/movement speed while readied)

-Crusader's Crossbow (150% damage or medi-gun back)

 

 

I agree with Overdose's Other Weapons category. Freedom Staff seems to be OK, but Bat Outta Hell does need a slight nerf in the self launch force.

Huntsman needs a slight buff in damage while the Crusader's Crossbow, as it currently is, needs to allow for the medi-gun to be usable. If not, then that damage needs to be increased.

 

I also agree that shotguns need to have a nice flavor added to them.

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*some good ideas*

 

-Cleaver (Reduce recharge speed to 80% maybe, reduce damage slightly, like 10%-15%)

 

 

I'm ok with the damage reduction. Players with good aim can easily destroy a hale (4k hp hale vs last man crit cleaver scout, unless the boss has an stun rage, they're f*squee*ed).

But I think the recharge nerf is unecessary, as this weapon is supposed to w+m1, reducing it's recharge time would cause the scout to switch weapons (as they don't have their primary weapons, they would switch to their melee weapon), and probably the recharge time was added to be the exact time for the scout to don't switch weapons.

 

_

 

*a random idea I had* currently the vaccinator gives your patient crits, I think it would be nice (still, don't know if it's possible scriptwise, they don't have separated on-uber attributes, so I doubt this is possible, even if they had separated attributes) if you actually had to switch the resistance type to give your patient crits.

For an example, for you to give crits to a minigun heavy, you switch to bullet resistance, to give crits to a flamethrower pyro switch to fire resistance (or if he's using a projectile weapon, bullet resistance), and to give crits to a soldier (rocket launcher, bullet resistance if he's using an shotgun), explosive resistance. Just to add more ace to this weapon, so you have to actually pay attention to your patient, and not just hold m1 and earn damage.

 

__

 

About bosses, no one so far has mentioned scout bosses. Let's see: (spoilers just to don't waste too much space)

- They are faster than a regular boss

- They have the same hp as a regular boss

- They can double-jump (tripple jump with RD's "broken" atomizer)

- They have a faster swing speed

- Spies usually can't backstab a scout boss as they are too fast, unless they do a leap of faith, or a lucky facestab [which is very difficult since scout bosses have a faster swing speed).

- They can superjump as a regular boss

- They can use weightdown, as a regular boss

- They have around the same damage as a regular boss.

 

Now, comparing a regular scout to other tf2 classes;

- He's faster and have double jump, but has less hp.

- He have a faster swing speed, but also has a reduced damage (~50%)

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That's another thing about VSP: lately I have seen players struggling to use the weighdown ability.  Is it because of the knockback power of some player weapons (ex. crited/krited minigun or lvl 3 sentry), or could it just be the custom key bindings of some players?

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That's another thing about VSP: lately I have seen players struggling to use the weighdown ability.  Is it because of the knockback power of some player weapons (ex. crited/krited minigun or lvl 3 sentry), or could it just be the custom key bindings of some players?

 

I've noticed increased knockback on certain weapons (Rocket launchers in particular), and bosses which become immune to knockback (mainly Applejack) experience much more knockback than other hales.

 

 

Also, this has been mentioned before, I think Rarity needs a slight nerf, be it to the invisibility duration or what. (Invisibility + Backstabs + Disguise (Including knockback immunity except to airblasts) is a little (very) annoying)

 

They are faster than a regular boss

- They have the same hp as a regular boss

- They can double-jump (tripple jump with RD's "broken" atomizer)

- They have a faster swing speed

- Spies usually can't backstab a scout boss as they are too fast, unless they do a leap of faith, or a lucky facestab [which is very difficult since scout bosses have a faster swing speed).

- They can superjump as a regular boss

- They can use weightdown, as a regular boss

- They have around the same damage as a regular boss.

 

Now, comparing a regular scout to other tf2 classes;

- He's faster and have double jump, but has less hp.

- He have a faster swing speed, but also has a reduced damage (~50%)

 

Funny enough, Rainbow Dash actually has reduced damage, although I think the script itself makes it almost always a 1 hit kill anyways (just less likely than most hales). Reduce jump height by 25% on these hales so the double jump is less effective or something? Maybe 10% reduced movement speed? Will bosses be adjusted in the near future? Who knows!

 

Find out after this brief commerial break!

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For Rarity, being that the Your Eternal Reward is now redundant, maybe it is time to change up her choice of knife.  Because whenever she is not being a ninja pony, she gets destroyed all because of the effects of the Your Eternal Reward not working.  So far the only knives that I see her using would be the Stock knife (whether it be a Diamond Botkiller or not), Big Earner, or the Kunai.  As for her raging, maybe instead of making her invisible, she can be given the disguise kit that she can use 5 times before it disappears, all while her using the Invis Watch with the same stats as that of the RED team Spy.

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^ Good idea about the rage, but I think her ability to backstab should be removed, so it's viable to melee her and not die in a single facestab. Same with chrysalis, but currently she have a "disguise on backstab" attribute, which would nerf her a bit too much.

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How about those rocking lawn chairs guys? (Read: Rocket Launchers)

 

They deal WAY too much self damage right now, especially considering the extra jump height and fall damage. An average rocket jump deals 100 damage without gunboats. Gunboats still does around 40 damage.

 

I feel like this nerf was probably intended towards the gunboats; Why not reduce the damage reduction slightly instead? Nerf it to 35% or 40% and that's an additional 10-20 damage right there. Soldiers already have reduced rocket damage, and don't have many frequently used secondaries (other than gunboats), so this damage increase to self encourages gunboats use even more. I really want to be able to rocket jump with a different secondary more than once before dying.

 

Thoughts on this?

 

>Kumar and No Name (Skeith and PB&J included) I feel like we're the only ones who want things changed lol. Where's everybody at D:

 

    Admin input would be nice because they actually would be involved in these changes too. At least Jug and Sacred are looking every once and a while, but they haven't for a while now. Vacations or whatever op.

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Yeah, self damage is way too big if you aren't using gunboats. You have to either choose between gunboats to do rocket jumps, or between the concheror/battalion's_backup/buff banner (the most choosen, people doesn't uses other secondaries much). They were probably nerfed due to vsh_kakirekekkake....kakariko map, as there was lots of health around. Nerf the gunboats would be more fair to who doesn't uses them. Currently it feels like the gunboats is a must if you play as a soldier.

If endround stalling is a problem, just remove soldier's gunboats if they are the last man, the same way as it's planned to spies (remove their watches on last man)

 

 

Off-topic stuff:

Probably because vacations, if you look at the bottom of the page ("The following members have visited today:") on forun index, you'll see that around 30% people are missing there. I won't havej vacations until setember, my teachers did a strike during november 2012 untill february 2013 (my college was supposed to start on february, but it started in middle march. Even if I had vacations I wouldn't leave home.

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So, it seems the quick-fix was "fixed", but instead of giving more overheal than other mediguns, it's giving the exactly same amount as the other mediguns. Probably valve hardcoded the -50% overheal, so the bonus needs to be 150% overheal.

 

Edit: derp. The -50% overheal attribute is still present on the weapon, no hardcoding.

Edited by No Name

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I'm starting to be tired of people that use the bat-outta-hell or liberty staff only for reach some points of maps and spam taunts, or idle.

 

If you do it a pair of time, is funny, but if you do always, is boring.

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I'm starting to be tired of people that use the bat-outta-hell or liberty staff only for reach some points of maps and spam taunts, or idle.

 

If you do it a pair of time, is funny, but if you do always, is boring.

 

People exploit the map all the time because of the bat-outta-hell. Rounds drag on because of the massive jump on bat-outta-hell. I always laugh when people fall to their death because of it; It shouldn't be a strong as it is right now. This should be fixed... I get bored of long rounds a lot because the hale can't reach people, and the people just camp the entire time. It should have 200% damage bonus, with 300% increased damage to self. Thus it truly is a nuke weapon; You hit them, it's a solid 600 damage; If you miss, you die. Or just give the -50% self-launch force as previously mentioned.

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I'm starting to be tired of people that use the bat-outta-hell or liberty staff only for reach some points of maps and spam taunts, or idle.

 

If you do it a pair of time, is funny, but if you do always, is boring.

 

People exploit the map all the time because of the bat-outta-hell. Rounds drag on because of the massive jump on bat-outta-hell. I always laugh when people fall to their death because of it; It shouldn't be a strong as it is right now. This should be fixed... I get bored of long rounds a lot because the hale can't reach people, and the people just camp the entire time. It should have 200% damage bonus, with 300% increased damage to self. Thus it truly is a nuke weapon; You hit them, it's a solid 600 damage; If you miss, you die. Or just give the -50% self-launch force as previously mentioned.

 

In short, a Ullapool Caber for all classes?

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