Zeke Aileron™

Certain problems on VSP that needs to be clarified

41 posts in this topic

Several players that mainly play on the Texas Server has been wanting to know if these issues have been discussed about and resolved within the Admins to suppress any future problems on the VSP servers.

 

The problem with ping maskers especially those that mask their ping when they actually have 200+ ping while in the Texas servers, Hopefully this problem has been discussed about resolved as being kickable and or a bannable offense?

 

The R rage problem with Pinkie Pie and Braeburn since it can be used in the air during it making the Hale able to freely strafe through the air and get goombas' when the hale itself is supposed to do the taunt as well in which to my eyes is an exploit, Hopefully this has been resolved as a kickable and or a bannable offense especially since exploits is clearly mentioned on the motd.

 

Hopefully these problems has been discussed about within the Admins and resolved with the recommended judgement to them so the people in this forum community that Constantly play on the VSP servers would like the clarified responses on these problems.

Edited by Zeke Aileron™
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Several players that mainly play on the Texas Server has been wanting to know if these issues have been discussed about and resolved within the Admins to suppress any future problems on the VSP servers.

 

The problem with ping maskers especially those that mask their ping when they actually have 200+ ping while in the Texas servers, Hopefully this problem has been discussed about resolved as being kickable and or a bannable offense?

 

The R rage problem with Pinkie Pie and Braeburn since it can be used in the air during it making the Hale able to freely strafe through the air and get goombas' when the hale itself is supposed to do the taunt as well in which to my eyes is an exploit, Hopefully this has been resolved as a kickable and or a bannable offense especially since exploits is clearly mentioned on the motd.

 

Hopefully these problems has been discussed about within the Admins and resolved with the recommended judgement to them so the people in this forum community that constantly play on the VSP servers would like the clarified responses on these problems.

 

-Not an admin, but bans for either of those seem unreasonable, and kicks for pingmasking should be handled by a plugin made for it. https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=98195

 

The R rage problem sounds to be an issue that should definitely be looked into, if that isn't by design then its a bug that should be fixed, though kick/ban for it seems way too over dramatic, as its not game breaking and very similar to a feature rather than an exploit.

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-Not an admin, but bans for either of those seem unreasonable, and kicks for pingmasking should be handled by a plugin made for it. https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=98195

 

The R rage problem sounds to be an issue that should definitely be looked into, if that isn't by design then its a bug that should be fixed, though kick/ban for it seems way too over dramatic, as its not game breaking and very similar to a feature rather than an exploit.

Ugh...why does that plugin require a regex library when it could easily be done with a for loop. Also, googled "regex nightmare" and found this: (?<specifier>[%&@!#$])?(?<array>\((?<size>(([0-9]+)\,?\s?)*|([0-9]+\sTo\s[0-9]+\,?\s?)+)\))?(?<as>\sAs(\s(?<initializer>New))?\s

Regex, bringing obfuscation into the 2010s.

 

Ahem, aside from that, nice little plugin you found there. :p

 

And yeah...the reload rage thing, it's a bug but as a developer myself (that stun rage isn't mine) it's the developer's own fault if they didn't make the rules of the game correctly, not the player's. Having stuff like that be bannable just wouldn't be fair. Players aren't omniscient.

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And yeah...the reload rage thing, it's a bug but as a developer myself (that stun rage isn't mine) it's the developer's own fault if they didn't make the rules of the game correctly, not the player's. Having stuff like that be bannable just wouldn't be fair. Players aren't omniscient.

 

What about doing this repeatedly, even though you already got warned by mods and/or admins? Like a 3-strike-and-you're-out system?

Edited by Koekelbag

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And yeah...the reload rage thing, it's a bug but as a developer myself (that stun rage isn't mine) it's the developer's own fault if they didn't make the rules of the game correctly, not the player's. Having stuff like that be bannable just wouldn't be fair. Players aren't omniscient.

 

What about doing this repeatedly, even though you already got warned by mods and/or admins? Like a 3-strike-and-you're-out system?

 

Bosses whose mechanics are broken beyond simple repair get temporarily taken down, like Nightmarity.

 

This stun rage issue, especially compared to that, qualifies more as "irritating" than anything. I suppose if they generate enough complaints those reload abilities could be outright removed.

 

Also staff inter-communication tools aren't good enough for a 3 strikes system to work well. I'd rather the weight be placed on the developers anyway to motivate fixes.

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Placing bans on all of the things you mentioned?  Uh.. no.  It doesn't even come close to the levels of "consideration to ban" when it comes to that.

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This was discussed with me, and even though it could be considered an exploit, we can't start banning people for the "rage in the air" business. It's too easy to do accidentally, and it is an obvious mechanic once figured out. We may have to adjust the length of stun to account for people doing this, but no bans should be done. Ping maskers are definitely something we intend to ban for, however it will be done by a plugin and not human admins, so bans should not be handed out for ping maskers just yet until we implement the plugin.

EDIT: Given how Raini says it's okay, you could ban ping maskers, but you better be 100% sure that it is a person who is masking their ping. The whole reason I do not believe we should be banning for it yet is because sometimes it isn't obvious and I do not want a bunch of unjustified/mistake bans going around.

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Ping maskers are definitely something we intend to ban for, however it will be done by a plugin and not human admins, so bans should not be handed out for ping maskers just yet until we implement the plugin.

 

I did find this on Raini's Steam Profile page comments.

 

vdTOXZs.png

 

:sweetieyes:  Oh ok, it's great that you're still considering about the Ping Masking business, thank you for clarifying that.

Edited by Zeke Aileron™
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Ping maskers are definitely something we intend to ban for, however it will be done by a plugin and not human admins, so bans should not be handed out for ping maskers just yet until we implement the plugin.

 

I did find this on Raini's Steam Profile page comments.

 

vdTOXZs.png

 

:sweetieyes:  Oh ok, it's great that you're still considering about the Ping Masking business, thank you for clarifying that.

 

 

Thanks for pulling that up, I was not aware Raini gave out that detail. It certainly wasn't mentioned anywhere on the MOTD or such, so I assumed that it wasn't to be done yet. I have updated my post reflecting this comment.

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This was discussed with me, and even though it could be considered an exploit, we can't start banning people for the "rage in the air" business. It's too easy to do accidentally, and it is an obvious mechanic once figured out. We may have to adjust the length of stun to account for people doing this, but no bans should be done

Is it possible that the abilities could be plain out removed until its fixed then? I hate to just have to ignore it because it's not deemed "ban worthy".

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This was discussed with me, and even though it could be considered an exploit, we can't start banning people for the "rage in the air" business. It's too easy to do accidentally, and it is an obvious mechanic once figured out. We may have to adjust the length of stun to account for people doing this, but no bans should be done. Ping maskers are definitely something we intend to ban for, however it will be done by a plugin and not human admins, so bans should not be handed out for ping maskers just yet until we implement the plugin.

EDIT: Given how Raini says it's okay, you could ban ping maskers, but you better be 100% sure that it is a person who is masking their ping. The whole reason I do not believe we should be banning for it yet is because sometimes it isn't obvious and I do not want a bunch of unjustified/mistake bans going around.

 

Specifically how does this plugin work? cl_cmdrate is a flexible value because its a network optimization, ranges from 40-100 are quite normal, and suggested if you have a bad connection to the server, as it can reduce actual lag. Popular config generators like Chris configs and TF2Mate http://clugu.com/tf2mate/have this built in.

 

Also, you don't have to guess what a persons actual ping is, I'm pretty sure the 'status' command in console gets all player information, including actual ping.

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This was discussed with me, and even though it could be considered an exploit, we can't start banning people for the "rage in the air" business. It's too easy to do accidentally, and it is an obvious mechanic once figured out. We may have to adjust the length of stun to account for people doing this, but no bans should be done

Is it possible that the abilities could be plain out removed until its fixed then? I hate to just have to ignore it because it's not deemed "ban worthy".

 

 

Hmm, what actually caught my eye is even though it's an Exploit and what you said Colgate; "I hate to just have to ignore it because it's not deemed "Ban Worthy", but when Players that are on the Red team that do exploits even when it's their first time doing an exploit it's considered a ban within the Staff Rules and Punishments list(below).

 

Also in the Staff Rules and Punishments list which is a great list to look at every once in a while, what i saw is this under the Gameplay section:

 

Game Exploit

Abusing a Versus Ponyville, map, or TF2 exploit.

 

First Offense: 1 day ban

Second Offense: 1 week ban

Third Offense: 1 month ban

 

So seeing that the rage being deemed not ban worthy but an exploit at the same time makes this Punishment rule nonexistent to Hale players which i find completely unfair in this case.

 

Also another issue with these two Hales is that the fact with the rage in air business, the player that plays these specified hales knows exactly what they're doing when they push that "R" button when they're in the air, and the fact that these two Hales also have a ridiculously fast Super Jump cooldown, The second they land on the ground they can already jump into the air again, which in turn using the R rage complimented with the Super jump spam these two hales are known for, it gets abused a lot which is another issue on these specified hales.

 

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Well, time to Ban Holy Bird Pope

 

Due to him not being able to change his mask he put on like a year ago.

 

This is the problem with banning ping maskers. Cause some can't even fix there problem.

 

and it really shouldn't matter, you notice something strange and then like all players say "OMG THAT'S RANGE I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT OBNOXIOUSLY." You notice it shouldn't even matter.

 

About the boss rages. Why...? Who is even going to think about just going "IMMA GOOMBA WHILE TAUNTING MID AIR!!" Nobody, that's who

Edited by Scootz

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Well, time to Ban Holy Bird Pope

 

Due to him not being able to change his mask he put on like a year ago.

 

This is the problem with banning ping maskers. Cause some can't even fix there problem.

 

and it really shouldn't matter, you notice something strange and then like all players say "OMG THAT'S RANGE I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT OBNOXIOUSLY." You notice it shouldn't even matter.

 

About the boss rages. Why...? Who is even going to think about just going "IMMA GOOMBA WHILE TAUNTING MID AIR!!" Nobody, that's who

Stop ignoring problems and acting like they don't need fixing.

 

Regarding ping masking, if you can figure out how to get it to work to begin with, you can figure out how to disable it, it's not difficult to google it.

Straight up complaining about ping range, I understand why it's annoying, have personally complained about it, but I understand both sides. The problem here is that you don't have a warning about the range, so you can't prepare for it, which is just cheap. (I know you can find it in the console, but stopping to figure it out mid-round will get you killed)

 

You'd be surprised how many people have abused the R ability on Pinkie and Brae, people figure it out, it's not hard to, not everyone is an idiot. Considering you're supposed to also be stunned during it, I consider it an exploit. I understand not banning people for it, but it does desperately need a fix.

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and it really shouldn't matter, you notice something strange and then like all players say "OMG THAT'S RANGE I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT OBNOXIOUSLY." You notice it shouldn't even matter.

 

About the boss rages. Why...? Who is even going to think about just going "IMMA GOOMBA WHILE TAUNTING MID AIR!!" Nobody, that's who

 

The amount of problems you've ignored that you have is just unnecessary.

 

But yeah sure, That high ping players that play as the hale is a huge amount of range and it's unbearable to avoid, but when it's a player with the same issue as above but using a Ping mask to hide their 200+ ping then it needs to be a issue that should be handled with already.

 

I'd rather you have Prior knowledge and facts to the last statement you said because you obviously haven't been keeping up with the Server Bosses then because they "Do Not Taunt While In Midair" when they use the R rage, They basically move freely during the air and you can also B-hop to keep yourself from doing the taunt yourself and as well land towards a wall/slope to continue on without even doing the Taunt during your own R rage, it's ridiculous and looked at as an exploit because it's been abused so many times already.

Edited by Zeke Aileron™
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I'm not exactly the best programmer, in the sense that basic programming is a struggle, but I might as well add my two cents to the matter on the topic of the mid-air stun. 

It's a rather simple thought, but might it be possible to add an additional requirement to the rage in order to allow it to be activated? In the sense of a Scout's drink or the Pyro's Mmmph!, could such a little necessity be implemented, rather than entirely pulling the R rage?

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This was discussed with me, and even though it could be considered an exploit, we can't start banning people for the "rage in the air" business. It's too easy to do accidentally, and it is an obvious mechanic once figured out. We may have to adjust the length of stun to account for people doing this, but no bans should be done

Is it possible that the abilities could be plain out removed until its fixed then? I hate to just have to ignore it because it's not deemed "ban worthy".

 

 

clip

 

 

The age old issue of enforceability. There are /obvious/ exploits, and then there are bugs that act as features. You can label a lot of things an 'exploit' based on it being buggy, but you have to understand that there is an expectation of usability on both sides, not to mention language barriers. Jumping into the air and hitting the E key is as simple as the slip of a finger, and labeling that an exploit on the level of banworthy like the old Lauren Faust spawn ion cannon doesn't make any sense. If someone admits that they do it knowingly to get an advantage, then sure, a temp ban makes sense, but being ban happy makes it excusable to have those bugs in the first place, and makes it a pretty damning experience for any player who's not up to date on issues.

 

I do understand your frustration, but there should be more of a push for a programic fix than bans.

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And yeah...the reload rage thing, it's a bug but as a developer myself (that stun rage isn't mine) it's the developer's own fault if they didn't make the rules of the game correctly, not the player's. Having stuff like that be bannable just wouldn't be fair. Players aren't omniscient.

 

What about doing this repeatedly, even though you already got warned by mods and/or admins? Like a 3-strike-and-you're-out system?

 

Bosses whose mechanics are broken beyond simple repair get temporarily taken down, like Nightmarity.

 

This stun rage issue, especially compared to that, qualifies more as "irritating" than anything. I suppose if they generate enough complaints those reload abilities could be outright removed.

 

Also staff inter-communication tools aren't good enough for a 3 strikes system to work well. I'd rather the weight be placed on the developers anyway to motivate fixes.

 

 

Any way to check if the hale is stunned/animating as they should be even if in the air? I know they can't do the animation in the air, but might it be possible to then just have a stun for the duration? I don't know if there's a sort of detection for in-air or not.

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I'm not exactly the best programmer, in the sense that basic programming is a struggle, but I might as well add my two cents to the matter on the topic of the mid-air stun. 

It's a rather simple thought, but might it be possible to add an additional requirement to the rage in order to allow it to be activated? In the sense of a Scout's drink or the Pyro's Mmmph!, could such a little necessity be implemented, rather than entirely pulling the R rage?

There are two possible fixes.

 

One is to do this check when initiating the rage:

if ((GetEntityFlags(bossClient) & FL_ONGROUND) == 0)

    return;

Effectively forcing the boss to use the rage where they can be affected. Unfortunately this one is probably exploitable due to the delayed execution of super jumps. (you wouldn't believe how many unnecessary timers FF2 has)

 

Another one would be to have this forward:

public Action:OnStomp(attacker, victim, &Float:damageMultiplier, &Float:damageBonus, &Float:JumpPower)

...and make it so goombas do not work during the rage, but since Friagram tends to not use globals this one would probably need some additional changes.

 

But again, this one isn't mine. It's Friagram's.

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snip

 

But again, this one isn't mine. It's Friagram's.

 

 

What about Braeburn? It is to my understanding you programmed that one, so if you fixed it for him, it might just make it faster for Friagram on any of his affected ;).

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What about Braeburn? It is to my understanding you programmed that one, so if you fixed it for him, it might just make it faster for Friagram on any of his affected ;).

Doesn't work that way. Bosses are usually made up of abilities from multiple sources. Braeburn's made up of:

  • rage_projectile_turret from my ff2_projectile_turret.sp mod
  • rage_stun_rages_suck (just guessing the name) from Friagram's ????.sp mod
  • rage_particle_# from Friagram?'s pony_abilities.sp mod
  • Super Jump, Weighdown, and preventtaunt from default_abilities.sp

I couldn't fix it if I wanted to. I have zero motivation to recreate something Friagram's made, and -1 motivation to recreate a stun rage that he made. :p

 

(and uh...when remade the stun rage for old Fluttershy so that medics could counter her, I had no idea at the time that the mapwide stuns were Friagram's, so lets just pretend that didn't happen)

 

While most hales I've worked on (except Braeburn and Princess Twilight) have most of the meaningful abilities come from me, they still can have Friagram's or FF2's, like rage_silence for unicorns and default abilities.

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So as some of you may be too ignorant to see, Ping range is actually quite a problem. It affects how the game is played. Now those living in texas or a few states over may have slight issues with playing against 200 ping rales with a demo weapon or whip however; once you add 200 ping to the other side the range goes from stupid to downright insane. I've been hit 3 seconds after moving with a combined ping of 500 and an eyelander.

 

If you know the ping you can adjust your playstyle which in return allows you to live longer and deal/heal more damage leading to more chance at victory for the Red Mercs. Ping masking helps players gain the false allusion advantage which helps them kill players more easily. It's an exploit like any other; intended or not.

 

Is it bananable? Well you simply refer to the rule list Zeke mentioned not to mention the quote from Raini. Adding to that, high ping hales in general do need to be cut down, If it means that I can't play hale due to my 190 ping, then so be it.

 

I don't really have much on the Mid-Air Rage issue. Simply put however, Braeburn needs a bigger superjump cooldown anyway. Plus that these rages work as taunts they're bound to be abused.

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Is it bananable? Well you simply refer to the rule list Zeke mentioned not to mention the quote from Raini. Adding to that, high ping hales in general do need to be cut down, If it means that I can't play hale due to my 190 ping, then so be it.

 

I don't really have much on the Mid-Air Rage issue. Simply put however, Braeburn needs a bigger superjump cooldown anyway. Plus that these rages work as taunts they're bound to be abused.

 

The high ping hales is questionable, but some players don't mind if certain players with high ping play as the Hales 1-2 times occasionally, but when the queue list is nothing but High ping players lined up consistently, then that becomes a huge problem especially for normal Texas vsp server(and it's worse if those players play Demo hales all the time, -_-).

 

A bigger/longer superjump cooldown for Braeburn and Pinkie Pie would be nice.

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Why not just have a plugin kick players with 150+ ping for 60 seconds? Playing at high ping sucks major donkey dong, and playing against high ping players sucks major donkey dong. With servers in EU, US, and JPN, that should give most players a <150 ping option.

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