ThunderRunner

Variety of bosses

11 posts in this topic

I've been thinking that we've been seeing too much the same bosses over again with low variety.

 

When the "Never be boss" was added, most regulars of the community turned of boss points making alot of fights against new players. This makes rounds often too easy with players who don't know much about playing hale, using rage, using the bosses correctly. This gets a bit boring after a while. It makes up for very little fight against donor bosses.

 

It's alot:

 

*Oh, im the melee person this round*

*Okay, so it's E button to rage (pressing immediately)*

*So I need to crouch to superjump* 

 

How about making turning off boss points reset queue points and moving it to /ff2toggle command (the usual FF2 command to turn of bosses). This could make not many people wanting to turn off bosses if they had to wait when turning them on again, and being able to save points makes no worries about disabling it.

 

Also, could we have the Duo bosses back to random on non-donors (or must it be extremely rare to get?) because what's the point of removing something that adds more variety that most other rounds and most of them appear in the show though.

 

I think Button Mash and Doctor Whooves should be non-donor bosses because they appear in the show, and we don't need 50% of the bosses as donor bosses. (Seeing the boss list covered with white names as non-donor).

Edited by ThunderRunner
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This is kind of a difficult thing to explain and understand, and I'm sure a lot of people won't understand the reasoning behind it. After the option was added, a lot of players just quit hale completely, and it's caused us to get either; A: players that try way too hard to win, and spam rage constantly, which is in no way fun to fight, or B: new players that have no idea what they're doing, and end up getting destroyed with little to no effort from the mercs. This causes the rounds to be full of rage spam, or just full of bad players that aren't fun to fight.

 

Another thing I would like to suggest would be a cooldown on bosses. After a boss is played 2 or 3 times in a row, disable it for the rest of the map, or at least multiple rounds. I don't like fighting RD, AJ, Twilight, and Chrysalis every single round.

 

There's an extreme lack of variety in what bosses are played, and if I think that Whooves and Button became public like Thunder said, we would have at least somewhat more players trying those out at least.

 

Sorry if I just re-explained everything you said, Thunder, for absolutely no reason. :P

Edited by Col(gate)
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This is kind of a difficult thing to explain and understand, and I'm sure a lot of people won't understand the reasoning behind it. After the option was added, a lot of players just quit hale completely, and it's caused us to get either; A: players that try way too hard to win, and spam rage constantly, which is in no way fun to fight, or B: new players that have no idea what they're doing, and end up getting destroyed with little to no effort from the mercs. This causes the rounds to be full of rage spam, or just full of bad players that aren't fun to fight.

 

Another thing I would like to suggest would be a cooldown on bosses. After a boss is played 2 or 3 times in a row, disable it for the rest of the map, or at least multiple rounds. I don't like fighting RD, AJ, Twilight, and Chrysalis every single round.

 

There's an extreme lack of variety in what bosses play, and if I think that Whooves and Button became public like Thunder said, we would have at least somewhat more players trying those out at least.

You do make good points about this.

 

Not sure about about the cooldown though.

 

Sorry if I just re-explained everything you said, Thunder, for absolutely no reason. :P

No worries, your explanation was more understandable. Was too tired to explain good :P

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Never be boss was enabled after the HUGE amount of people that used to play on VSP that would suicide on start round. Not sure how people saw how bad it was, but to be quite frank, it was pretty bad on the ratio of people playing to suicide and people picking boss to fight. It was same during this time that if a hale were to die, they would glitch the music, and it would overplay on the next hales song. It was just a bad mess of people saying how to reset points, or how to fix music, so they did that to stop with the forced queue for all players. On the other hand, I do see how the hale variety is a "problem". It's the grim truth that our hale list is a mess of white, but I do think that there should be some bosses un-locked with a community vote. However due to the large mass of the development team kind of halting in their place, unlocking hales leaves less and less donar hales to be on the menu. 

 

However this topic is tied to soooooo much more things then it appears to be. It's tied to server revenue, upkeep and money that can keep it still to be hosted, and lots of other things with user experience. The server needs donations, and while I do get infinite donar, I do plan to pitch in still. It costs alot to keep these servers up, and due to that, the donar hales are really probably going to stay locked to donators only due to the fact that "people get what they pay for". Alot of people might dis-agree, but servers don't just exist. Now this is just my opinion on stuff, but we gotta be fair also in some sense.

Edited by Holy Bird Pope

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-snip-

To be honest, there are more then enough donator hales and perks in general if you ask me. A fairly large majority of them are locked as it is, and it feels more like a "premium" status, over a DONATION. It is a donation for a reason, I understand you want to get perks so more people actually donate, but there's a limit to where it's too much. They get trails, extra models, and at least 35% of the bosses are locked to donators.

 

And to respond to the opt out option for hale, yeah it was put in for a reason, and it was reasonable to do so. People did suicide a lot and screw up the music, but I do miss having more hales play, and when people actually got excited to play hale. Now you can just play whenever you want as long as it's not very often, since you have points stocked up.

 

I don't feel there's a direct fix to the problem that can satisfy everyone, that's the issue here. What we can at least do is limit bosses or give people more of a reason to play different bosses again. It just gets stale having to fight similar bosses all the time, and it's definitely not easy to just constantly add more bosses. People will always stick to the basics of what's easy to win as it is, since people don't really like having a challenge it seems.

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-snip-

To be honest, there are more then enough donator hales and perks in general if you ask me. A fairly large majority of them are locked as it is, and it feels more like a "premium" status, over a DONATION. It is a donation for a reason, I understand you want to get perks so more people actually donate, but there's a limit to where it's too much. They get trails, extra models, and at least 35% of the bosses are locked to donators.

 

And to respond to the opt out option for hale, yeah it was put in for a reason, and it was reasonable to do so. People did suicide a lot and screw up the music, but I do miss having more hales play, and when people actually got excited to play hale. Now you can just play whenever you want as long as it's not very often, since you have points stocked up.

 

I don't feel there's a direct fix to the problem that can satisfy everyone, that's the issue here. What we can at least do is limit bosses or give people more of a reason to play different bosses again. It just gets stale having to fight similar bosses all the time, and it's definitely not easy to just constantly add more bosses. People will always stick to the basics of what's easy to win as it is, since people don't really like having a challenge it seems.

 

I do agree there's too much perks for donors and not to mention some of the evil ones like slot reservations.

 

The music glitch was fixed some days after adding the "Opt-out" option which stops the music from the boss who killed himself after round start countdown.

 

From what I know, there's a community adding boss points rank system for each round won with it's win/lose ratio counting more points the less percentage of it.

 

This is how it counts (points not shown): http://www.thehh.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11211&sid=c054062583168f75890d44867c668172

 

The community use for the more wins than losses, the more health get reduced and the other way around with the more losses than wins. After 10 plays for a boss for the player, it recieves personal stats meaning it count's the amount of wins and losses only for the person with the health loss/increase. This is the idea of playing different hales than people always playing their favorite over and over agian and good players gets more challenge.

 

The ranking system with boss points could be a good points for making people have a reason to play boss. But I would like to not suggest the second thing I said about the "Hampshire Heavies" with the health loss/increase depending on the ratio, it's just too harsh :P

Edited by ThunderRunner

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If I may make a suggestion, I believe if this feature was implemented, it could improve hale variety massively.

When a player comes to pick the hale they want to play as, create a hale que sort of menu that allows you to pick (lets say total of 5) and set them in an ordered que, and you cant change that until it has been played through completely.

For example, I type the command /boss, and the boss menu comes up, but allows you to select 5 hales in the order you like.

After selection, so to say the "/bossque" command will bring up a small announcement menu/window showing the 5 hales you picked in order. These hales cannot be changed after selected, nor can the /boss menu (and you can do a donor only thing like being able to change the que) be brought up, redirecting the command to /bossque and showing the bosses you picked, and the ones that have been played whited out and striked through.

Only after the 5 hales have been played can you select another 5.

Just a simple and neat way of keeping variety, unless its too complicated. Just an idea though.

-----------

If variety is still an issue with this system, make it detect how many players have what hale selected in which order so it can select a different player and keep "same hales" atleast 2-3 rounds apart.

Edited by Vin

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So, just a thought... but what if all bosses can be selected using the "random" option? Meaning, besides your normal rotation of non-donor bosses, duos/cmc (wasn't that already a random option?) and donor-bosses can also be played.

I'm not so sure about how many people that play the server are donors, but... I think it's a fair bet that the distribution is something like 30% donors vs 70% non-donors (don't have data on this one, but it's just to make my point come across).
So, if more than half of your playerbase doesn't even have a chance to play these donor-bosses... is it a surprise that the same bosses keep coming up?
So, if those players were to be given a chance to play these bosses they otherwise couldn't, by adding bosses to the random-option, wouldn't that increase boss-variety?

Idk, just throwing out some thoughts.

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Actually not a bad idea Koekel. I can see some donators complaining though because they feel it's unfair that they basically paid for the bosses, while others did not. Like I've said multiple times, it is indeed still a donation, not a premium status. I still disagree with how many bosses donators get, and I feel this would be a decent middle-ground for both parties. You donate, you have full access over what you can play, and if you don't donate, you can still play the bosses, just not whenever you choose.

 

I think a long while back before the big server split, only donators could actually choose bosses, and everyone else was stuck on random. It wasn't always fun getting a boss you disliked, but it did actually give a lot more variety to the ones played, and I think it was probably more enjoyable at the time.

 

So, yeah, sounds like a decent idea to me.

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I would absolutely adore it if donor only bosses could be selected by random, ESPECIALLY duos and the CMC.

I remember a time where sometimes, players with the same queu points could be randomly selected to be a duo boss regardless of which boss they had selected, and it was a fun, random aspect adding a lot of variety.

It'd be pretty sweet if that returned. It's such a shame to only ever see duos and the CMC whenever donors select 'em now.

I miss the days of surprise and variety.

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I personaly dislike playing bosses, so I turn them off almoust indefenetely. For me personaly, playing a boss is too stressful. When I play a boss like Discord, I don't have enough time for fun. I have to kill all engineers before they build up defences, kill snipers on the open maps, kill medics and anything that could cause me harm realy quickly. There is no reward for me to play a boss, except increased stress level. I would play CMC bosses if they would be availaible for normal people, because it puts less burden on my part when fighting the merceneries.

Regarding loosing que points when turning off the boss mode, I am completely fine with that.

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