PootisKing HoovyBorn

should spells be disabled for some loadouts? e.g. hhh demos, fan scouts and kgb heavies

18 posts in this topic

I think that the spells on the server are used too much because every time you are on with 20 or more (or less) the majority of them will spell spam either when they know the hales gonna kill them, across map or when there is more than 5 people alive and the hale can be 1 hit killed by a melee hit. If i was to suggest a hale that punishes spells (if you use a spell -50hp) or one that disables them for the entire round. This would allow people to learn how to play and get good without having to rely on uber spells, pumpkin bombs and monoculoses (especially the red lightning one which entangles you and even if u superjump/teleport or neigh down (if it ever decides to work), you are dead.

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Actually Spells did had the Debuffs But Updates Gun Mettle,Tough Break,MeetYourMatch Are destroyed Stats for it.And the Biggest spells spammers are known on EU Aka Its worthless to type here.EU is rarely getting updated,cauuse EU and JAP Servers are not on auto update feature.(Wich is Kinda sad).

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On 7/15/2016 at 4:41 PM, PootisKing HoovyBorn said:

- snip -

You do realize that the spells is a unique feature for the server right, it did have the "Ammo becomes heath" attribute but Valve removed that from the game during the Tough Break update, if the attribute still existed it would've been fine to change the number back to the old one, but nope.

Also the word "Majority" on how you used it is incorrect considering that not everyone on the US servers use spells all the time, most of the time it's usually Snipers, Pyros(pre Reserve Shooter nerf), and Crossbow Medics, even then losing a -hp max additive isn't enough to stop spell spam, Col and myself had a really good idea to balance the spell usage, but yours is just a downgrade to the uniqueness of spells on the server, sure spell spam is annoying, but you have to deal with it most of the time.

Plus Unicorns, Alicorns, Ironwill, Derpy, and EappleJack do disable spells for a short period of time when they rage, including Nightmare Moon she actually forces a mercenaries spell they have selected to be removed when she rages.

Edited by Zeke Aileron™
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I completely agree with Zeke on the matter, and I'm pretty sure you've used spells plenty of times and still complain about it (which I don't understand?). But that's besides the point, I personally believe spells add an interesting dynamic as most bosses on the server are extremely unbalanced (Looking at you Rainbow Dash) and while spells are annoying, they definitely aren't overpowered. Spells, just like any other mechanic in the game, require knowledge and timing to use them to their full potential. Sure you can spam your spells whenever you see the boss and get a few hits in but most players who "spell spam" usually die after wasting their first 4 in panic. Just like there are good and bad players, there are good and bad spell users. 

On topic of the combos generally paired with spells (FAN, HHHH, Snipers, etc), the reason they are most commonly found with these loadouts is because they either help ease the pain of the stat debuffs, or aid their strengths further. And admittedly it does need a rework, but that doesn't mean they don't know how to play and they need to "get good". It's a very ignorant statement for players just using what they are given, as every player has their own tastes on how to play the game. 

tl;dr : spells need a rework, not a nerf into oblivion so they won't even be considered to play with or fun (why does scatter drain hp and why does shortstop disable double jump, fan should disable double jump ;w; )

Edited by Mix
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It's more of an issue of, "everything is overpowered so its sort of balanced but not really".

It basically goes like this;

"Bosses are overpowered so I'm going to counter with spells because we'll get stomped otherwise."

"I'm going to spam rage on an overpowered boss because I hate spell spam and it ruins all of my fun."

Cycle continues, blah, blah, blah. Overpowered vs overpowered. In the end you could call it "balanced" but at the end of the day neither side is having fun, at least that's how it is for me.

So basically everything needs heavy overhauls to be balanced, which requires a ton of work. Not that I'm against all that being done, its just unlikely to happen sadly. Just wish I could help with weapon balance directly instead of just posting suggestions.

But back to the original topic at hand, I do agree that some specific loadouts need tweaking to be less broken, though classes in general need more overhauls to not be straight upgrades. Biggest issue is spell sniper literally having only a downside of 25 less health. Just need the spellbook nerfs to be put back in place so they aren't just straight upgrades to loadouts.

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Some two cents: I do agree that spells are annoying, just more so what everyone has been saying. They can be overpowered at times, people may spam them to heavily rely on them (where some argue it's a crutch and shows how terrible of a player they are), yet they can still die if they use them incorrectly or at the worst given time possible. I've used spells a couple of times, and personally I saw them more as a downgrade compared to other load-outs (crossbow meem VS crossbow + spells). I will complain about it but it's something that will more likely remain.

Spells are a big part of the server - the traffic of players may mostly use them (not all). But it's a BIG part of the server that can bring in its main target audience, and attracts so many - you nerf it to absolute oblivion to where it's completely useless and you lose a big part of the server's demographic. Once again like what the others said to be redundant.

They do have their downsides but I get lots of players see it more as a buff and an annoying one at that. But it's a part of life with the server. They do need a rework but what you suggest, would harm more than do good really.

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I'm not saying they should be gotten rid of because it makes this server more unique but when you are playing with 20 other people and most are snipers, kgbs, hhh, fan scouts (or scunts) then its one sided when the hale has to rely on one raging just to get spell jumped, ubered or the one that traps the hale in red lightning things. All I want pretty much is the spells to have a requirement e.g. -10hp on wearer or -5% movement speed or something just to make people not rely on them

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On 16 July 2016 at 9:13 PM, Tuil5 said:

Actually Spells did had the Debuffs But Updates Gun Mettle,Tough Break,MeetYourMatch Are destroyed Stats for it.And the Biggest spells spammers are known on EU Aka Its worthless to type here.EU is rarely getting updated,cauuse EU and JAP Servers are not on auto update feature.(Wich is Kinda sad).

you are the 1st person on the website 2 agree with me (thank god some people do) kinda

Edited by PootisKing HoovyBorn

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On 16 July 2016 at 11:12 PM, Mix said:

I completely agree with Zeke on the matter, and I'm pretty sure you've used spells plenty of times and still complain about it (which I don't understand?). But that's besides the point, I personally believe spells add an interesting dynamic as most bosses on the server are extremely unbalanced (Looking at you Rainbow Dash) and while spells are annoying, they definitely aren't overpowered. Spells, just like any other mechanic in the game, require knowledge and timing to use them to their full potential. Sure you can spam your spells whenever you see the boss and get a few hits in but most players who "spell spam" usually die after wasting their first 4 in panic. Just like there are good and bad players, there are good and bad spell users. 

On topic of the combos generally paired with spells (FAN, HHHH, Snipers, etc), the reason they are most commonly found with these loadouts is because they either help ease the pain of the stat debuffs, or aid their strengths further. And admittedly it does need a rework, but that doesn't mean they don't know how to play and they need to "get good". It's a very ignorant statement for players just using what they are given, as every player has their own tastes on how to play the game. 

tl;dr : spells need a rework, not a nerf into oblivion so they won't even be considered to play with or fun (why does scatter drain hp and why does shortstop disable double jump, fan should disable double jump ;w; )

i can't use spells because during halloween 2015 i was still f2p and i didn't have enough space in my backpack so i only managed 2 get 2 pages

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My biggest gripe I have with spells is the excessive dependency they have put on them. Players would much rather suicide than take a hit if they can't find a hiding spot early game. It results in them dying, but it feels so pathetic to watch. "If I can't have my spells, then I won't play at all!"

Couldn't there be some way, some way at all, to code the 'Ammo Boxes give health' attribute into the game mode? I'm genuinely sick and tired of this nonsense. 

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4 hours ago, Dazkid33 said:

My biggest gripe I have with spells is the excessive dependency they have put on them. Players would much rather suicide than take a hit if they can't find a hiding spot early game. It results in them dying, but it feels so pathetic to watch. "If I can't have my spells, then I won't play at all!"

Couldn't there be some way, some way at all, to code the 'Ammo Boxes give health' attribute into the game mode? I'm genuinely sick and tired of this nonsense. 

It's either die by the hale or suicide, and I tend to chose the latter since you can't do much as a spell sniper without spells left. A lot of the time I fight til the end, and mostly only suicide when being severely tunneled or when solo raged. Ain't giving that hale the satisfaction of killing me, I'm looking at you Applejack. 

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11 hours ago, Juan Tienda said:

It's either die by the hale or suicide, and I tend to chose the latter since you can't do much as a spell sniper without spells left. A lot of the time I fight til the end, and mostly only suicide when being severely tunneled or when solo raged. Ain't giving that hale the satisfaction of killing me, I'm looking at you Applejack. 

For the most part, spell any class can be considered a high priority target, simply because letting them be allows them become more of a nuisance, by generating spells. Coupled with being a relatively high priority class as it is, able to do a rapid amount of damage with little risk and assist teammates by showing a boss's location, it's more than understandable that you'd be tunneled. It'd be like focusing a medic or engie; it's a significant risk to let them be.

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7 hours ago, Dazkid33 said:

-snip-

Well, i can understand that Spells on any class can be considered a high target, but the point is, why complain about them when the bosses are completely unbalanced in the same way, and most bosses that are(from my previous post on here):

On 7/16/2016 at 5:11 PM, Zeke Aileron™ said:

Unicorns, Alicorns, Ironwill, Derpy, and EappleJack do disable spells for a short period of time when they rage, including Nightmare Moon she actually forces a mercenaries spell they have selected to be removed when she rages.

Unbalanced Bosses vs Spells, i see no reason to complain about spells at the moment until a huge overall fix happens to the Bosses and or the Spell-book itself, with it's previous stats if possible considering ammo becomes health is gone from TF2. -hp max for a downside is just a meh downside considering how most maps that get played on VSP mostly have small hp kits and or none at all, and the fact that almost all Hales already one shot mercenaries regardless of spells or not.

 

On 7/20/2016 at 10:54 AM, PootisKing HoovyBorn said:

i can't use spells because during halloween 2015 i was still f2p and i didn't have enough space in my backpack so i only managed 2 get 2 pages

So if you did have a spell-book does that mean you would've used it then, hmm?

Well if you wanted to ask me if i use my Spell-book, Yes i use it a lot(On Halloween Servers!). But do i use it on the VSP servers, Rarely to almost never because i'd rather just play my normal classes without the need of a spell-book advantage/disadvantage(or whatever you view it as) since for me personally i highly dislike spells, but i'm not going to complain about them cause no matter what they'll always be unbalanced/overpowered(again, whatever you view it as). So yeah from what i said before:

On 7/16/2016 at 5:11 PM, Zeke Aileron™ said:

Col and myself had a really good idea to balance the spell usage

PS: When i get tunneled to no end, of course i would hit my suicide key-bind after a while, it's pointless to continue a fight if the Hale is just going to waste a single rage just for me because of their hard tunnel vision, that's primarily why a good amount of "Player Hales" tend to lose a lot because of this.

Edited by Zeke Aileron™
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HHH demo "get 10 heads become hhh with 1200hp almost unkillable", Fan scout "knockback", KGB "with dalokosbar and medic over 500hp. I bet people are gonna whine at this as well. I'm not saying GET RID OF SPELLS but instead introduce a hale that punishes players using them by bleeding, drowining, set on fire, less ammo, less hp because how would you like it if there is 20 people (e.g. 5 demos (4hhh demos), 5 kgbs, 5 kritz medics and 5 fan scouts) all holding down left shift or whatever key they have it set and you cant do anything to stop it. (Ik that some hales disable spells but still). Sometimes i feel like people are doing it on purpose (cuz they are going ape shit scared that they are gonna die), (just bad) or rely on them so much they dont know how to play the game without them. Before YOU ALL WHINE think of the times when you almost kill a guy and them instantly everyone on the server spams fireballs, monoculus, uber and that electric one and you get trapped what do you feel? Rage and frustration? I do and im not using this as a motive but i get pissed of easily because of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and Autism. If you dont know what either are then GOOGLE IT (or whatever search engine you use). put it simple 20 people playing hale 1 rages a guy who isnt scout every spell user goes ape shit and calls "NOOB" well how come its not ok to 1 rage but spell spam?

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20 minutes ago, PootisKing HoovyBorn said:

- snip-

Is it possible to not bring up your medical conditions into something that's not related to that, plus the cap for scouts on the server is 3(not 5), and the spellbook used to have an attribute that allowed them to not being able to pick up ammo but instead it became health for them(that attribute was broken), i'm not sure if you even read the previous posts because some people already has stated that the -hp max on spellbooks has always been a thing, and not many players get angry about KGB's and HHH Demo's, since they're easily avoidable and highly goomba-able(Since HHH doesn't have a dmg resistance like the KGB, they die very quickly to this method), and i'll be honest i'd rather take the Mercenaries spell spam without raging them at all when i play Hale, because i don't care about winning/losing as the Hale as long as i get the satisfaction of killing players without needing to rely on a rage mechanic against them especially against those that need spells, cause when they suicide that's one less person for me to deal with(You have to let them get scared of a proposed tunnel and possible one rage to force them to hit that suicide key-bind, it's that easy)

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Spells on the server isnt really a "unique feature" more like a way for noobs to feel good about themselves.. actually getting over 100 dmg a round, atleast thats the case on EU.

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Whine Whine Whine Wine. You are all whining about spells not needing nerfing when you are blind to see they are. You are using spells, you are holding down 1 key just to save your arse which leads the hale to target you or one rage you. It's ok to use them in MODERATION! If you do not know what that means it means "the avoidance of excess or extremes, especially in one's behaviour or political opinions". It's ok to throw a quick uber spell in a group of people then run but if you spam uber, invis, fire, lightning one after another it clearly shows how dependent on spells you are

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8 hours ago, PootisKing HoovyBorn said:

Whine Whine Whine Wine. You are all whining about spells not needing nerfing when you are blind to see they are. You are using spells, you are holding down 1 key just to save your arse which leads the hale to target you or one rage you. It's ok to use them in MODERATION! If you do not know what that means it means "the avoidance of excess or extremes, especially in one's behaviour or political opinions". It's ok to throw a quick uber spell in a group of people then run but if you spam uber, invis, fire, lightning one after another it clearly shows how dependent on spells you are

Who is this even directed towards? I think everyone on this thread is in agreement that they need some sort of tweaking, they just will unlikely get nerfed into the ground or removed. I personally despise spells, I just find it unlikely that they'll get nerfed as much as I'd like, because it'd be a turn off for people that only really play to use spells.

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